distinctive regional traditions

[Dinosaur]

Baked hedgehog anyone? Have found more of them trapped in features than frogs. Might explain all the charcoal and bits of fired clay and the like, not sure about the burnt stones though

[P Prentice]

http://septentrio.uit.no/index.php/rangi...le/152/141

[P Prentice]

Showing off again? I'm need a lie-down if I found one that size! That's more yer Roman/Med pit size

merely pointing out that the range they come in is extremely limited. most of mine less than 1.2 across and 0.5 deep
profiles may vary but so did Neo people (and diggers) so probably irrelevant
although i like the idea of pitfall traps and grub hunting pits - the evidence from pit group sites does not support either
if you think about the placed deposits at the base of causewayed enclosure ditch/pits, such as Etton, i would contend that pit digging was a way of penetrating the earth in order to put something back; sometimes with material culture, sometimes from a midden but probably with ceremony

[P Prentice]

this can be up to a 5cm grub living for 5-6 years down to depths of a meter. They were basically eradicated in the 20th century but are recorded in plague proportions and they were a magor cerial crop pest. Lots of ethnostudies show that grubs were eaten. So we have first farmers digging holes and u dont have a clue why.

first farmer is a bit overplayed. i would contend the mobile life persisted for another couple of millennia in some parts

[Dinosaur]

Ooh, pit alignments as reindeer traps, excellent!

Apparently the favoured pit-explanation here is that they were dug as somewhere handy to put your feet when sitting on the ground....as demonstrated by the average digger when doing their paperwork.... xx(

[Jack]

merely pointing out that the range they come in is extremely limited. most of mine less than 1.2 across and 0.5 deep
profiles may vary but so did Neo people (and diggers) so probably irrelevant
although i like the idea of pitfall traps and grub hunting pits - the evidence from pit group sites does not support either
if you think about the placed deposits at the base of causewayed enclosure ditch/pits, such as Etton, i would contend that pit digging was a way of penetrating the earth in order to put something back; sometimes with material culture, sometimes from a midden but probably with ceremony

But up here the deposits aren't placed in any discernible way. Unless you firstly decide that all forms of intentional back-filling as being ritual. Also what of the postholes?

Shape/size of a pit can be an indication of its function if the function was shape dependent. For instance the arguments/experiments regarding grain storage in pits. Also think of fire pits/hearths, post pits, animal traps, waterholes, cess-pits, structual hollows, stakeholes etc etc.......

To lump all pits in one category is to ignore vital evidence.

But..........yes...........in East Anglia and down south aren't the pits in question more uniform in size/shape? Or have the unusually shaped/sized ones been ignored? I don't know, only scanned stuff about them or read general discussion stuff.

In my area the pits with neolithic date range from shallow approx 0.35m diameter by up to 0.1m deep to 3.5m by 3.5m by 0.46m deep, of all shapes and profiles from steep sided flat bottomed to bowl shaped v-shaped. I got pits cut down to (but not through) the chalk bedrock, others are cut into the chalk bedrock, ones cut into clay, some cut into natural features such a s tree-throws, some cut into earlier features. I got neolithic pottery in natural features too.

Fills range from one or two fills of mixed ?midden material with burnt stones and charcoal to multiple fills/slumping episodes. I got silted up fills, pit side erosion, back-filled chalk, backfilled earth........I got packing fills, packing stones.........I even got a potential neolithic house!

Further afield there are other neo houses, midden deposits, further variety of pits and a possible pit alignment...............

It doesn't look like the same pattern of neo sites just being clusters or singular pits.

BUT, and the big BUT is the other associated features...........e.g. postholes and structures are mainly only in areas of less truncation.

Is that enough of a distinct difference for a regional tradition?

If not, look at Skara Brae,

Or Ceidhe Fields

Or the Carrowkeel area

[Dinosaur]

Is that enough of a distinct difference for a regional tradition?

What, that you got other stuff? :face-stir:

[P Prentice]

i dont think we should get bogged down with slight variation in profiles or the surviving contents - though evidence for long process silting would be interesting?
mostly the material evidence comes from the upper fills, occasionally spliced between sterile silts suggesting the open pits had a use but the pits are deliberatly backfilled with charcoal rich stuff potentially from feasting or the entire pit is sterile

ive seen similar postholes in ia pits and ive seen postholes adjacent to neo pits which i reckon to have been 'sign posts' but i wouldnt discount some kind of superstructure even if it is a house - though i have yet to see evidence for a permanent abode.
have you got ant neo hearths or fire pits with burnt edges?
as for tree throws they make great camp sites when the tree root provides a readymade bivouak.

the pits are everyday and commonplace but they are not evidence for permanent settlement

and the irish evidence is completely different - as if neolithicisation got there first (cartoon reality is from an older civilisation obviously)
whilst life on a small rocky island is never likely to be very mobile is it?

[CARTOON REALITY]

If not, look at Skara Brae,

Or Ceidhe Fields

Or the Carrowkeel area

Don't bother with the Ceidhe Fields, I was there for two weeks as a student. It's a dump.

[CARTOON REALITY]

and the irish evidence is completely different - as if neolithicisation got there first (cartoon reality is from an older civilisation obviously)
whilst life on a small rocky island is never likely to be very mobile is it?

Oh I know a taunt when I hear one, you'll not get a rise out of me today - no matter how much that big skippin' rope of a mouth of yours may swing between your ears.