How should British Archaeology be run

[BAJR]

Brilliant post.

It is about managing expectations for both degree archaeologists and non degree archaeologists. it is about providing pathways to skills and rewards for increasing competence.

It sounds weird, but for myself... without a degree... I am now working with a person who has a degree. Together we are the archaeological equivelent of Hart to Hart..

[Unitof1]

I think Universities need to make it clearer that a basic UG doesn't make you instantly employable as a field archaeologist- in fact I can think of very few basic degrees that do this- the vast majority of profession one enters require some form of additional training whether via post-graduate courses or formalised work experience (paid for either via the tax payer or through the profession).

majority of profession one enters require some form of additional training whether via post-graduate courses or formalised work experience (paid for either via the tax payer or through the profession

This "training" isn't "additional" to a "degree" though is it. Your relying on this fantasy experience majic fairy old lag mother training, not needing a degree to do it.

[BAJR]

What is your perception of a degree Unit?

What is it that a degree does not provide? that a degree should?

I too once railed against the non practical element that is often seen in university degrees. the main thing is that students should not see a degree as the opening to a job in FIELD archaeology - rather it is a degree. the Training in FIELD archaeology comes from the FIELD and so needs practical technical courses to support it. I know of many of these courses, but it is mainly in addition to a degree course. a degree course being very different from a practical technical course.

The issue we have is the haphazard nature of these courses, the random locations and the lack of connectivity between skills and employment.

I see benefit in all. and realisation about what does what.

Lets look at solutions rather than pop at curators/universities/anyone else.

[CARTOON REALITY]

Together we are the archaeological equivelent of Hart to Hart..

Are you Jonathan or Jennifer?

[P Prentice]

.......... and I knew that a degree wasn't enough.

best post on the thread tmsarch

as an employer i look for pre uni experience above all else and i will always provide training on suitable projects - it is good for business

[P Prentice]

BSc, MSc, county units, university units, pipeline units, self employed in 2001 broke since about 2009

I have only trained up two people and it was in how to become self employed and go about getting their first jobs by writing off to planning concents and then how to get the curators to alow them to do the jobs as obviously their degrees and often considereable field experience was never quite good enough to do even a simple watching brief without a lot of wailing to the mostly BA curators.

I have trained others but it seems to me that if you are not eligible to undertake your own contract I dont see how you could be called an archaeologist.

Thanks for the thumbs up tmsarch I cant help but feel that a lot of this field experience is all about finding out what the status quo is and I dont think that its that complicated -two or three features a day clean your loose up take out a few numbers do that three days in a row and watch out that the supervisors/old lags dont put you down as a trouble maker.

you seem to be talking about diggers - not archaeologists

[Potgeek]

[QUOTE=as an employer i look for pre uni experience above all else and i will always provide training on suitable projects - it is good for business[/QUOTE]

I'm glad to hear of training provided on the job, though I am concerned that pre-uni experience could be a job clincher! How might a 17 yr old get experinece I wonder, or are have they blown it if they didn't start in the young archaeologists club prior to seeking a degree? I'm joking of course, but I do wonder whether we are expecting too much from uni-leavers etc, and whether it is right for us to keep moving the bar in terms of what you need to do/have before you can get your foot in the door - or dare I say call yourself an archaeologist! I'm so glad I'm not starting out again!!!

[Unitof1]

you seem to be talking about diggers - not archaeologists

haha the old whats in a name kingdom of universities, job descriptions, the ifa and units particularly council charity ones. There no such thing as an archaeologist is there.
G1 : Training Position) ?15,054.00 (?289.00 pw)
G2 : (ie Basic Site Assistant) ?16,018.73 (?308.05 pw)
G3 : (ie Site Assistant 2 or Technical 1?17,097.51 (?328.81 pw)
G 3/4 : (ie Senior Site Assistant or Technical 1 or Junior Supervisor ) ?17,874.30 (?343.74 pw)
G4 : (ie Technical 2 or Supervisor )?18,657.84 (?358.81 pw)
G 4/5 : (ie Senior Technical / Supervisor / Junior Project Officer )?20,063.26 (?385.83 pw)
G 5 : (ie Specialist 1, or Project Officer SMR Asst. ?21,332.86
G 5/6 : (ie Senior Specialist, SMR post and Project Officer or Junior Manager) ?24,159.43
G 6 : (ie Specialist 2, Senior SMR Post or Project Manager)?26,795.17
G 7 : (ie Directorial and Senior Management) ?34,523.90+

Sorry hosty this topic should be retitled "I jolly well had to learn by being ripped off and I still manage to get away with it"

as an employer i look for pre uni experience above all else and i will always provide training on suitable projects - it is good for business

cor giving away trade secrets your so brave, you also get to perpetuate the current accepted system and you select out the biggest mugs for exploitation. I must admit pretice I did not have you down as being in business but I take me hat off now.

Originally Posted by tmsarch
.......... and I knew that a degree wasn't enough.

was that in the first week, term, year, getting your first job?

[Wax]

How might a 17 yr old get experinece I wonder, or are have they blown it if they didn't start in the young archaeologists club prior to seeking a degree? I'm joking of course,

Many a true word said in jest, you might be surprised how much digging experience you would get joining your local YAC. And how many people volunteer as helpers and leaders? Costs you nothing and would look good on the CV. More importantly it would start you off networking as many of the leaders are involved in archaeology. I certainly know several young people who started with YAC and have gone on to study archaeology at A level and then at University. It is possible for those who are really keen to get pre university experience there are plenty of local societies who would love to have younger members.

It is tough but any youngster who is really keen and switched on will make their own oportunities especially with the social media that is now available. It perhaps requires a degree of maturity and dedication that most 17 year olds might not have.

[monty]

the 'basics' of archaeology in commercial enviroment ( no not hack it out and get it in section!)

......and what might they be if it ain't hack it out and get it in the section ????...or have I been missing something ..........