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25th September 2008, 04:10 PM
Quote:quote: Being expected to travel 2 hours to site, do a full day and then travel 2 hours back is not unheard of - an extra 4 hours per day = 20 hours per week. So the wages are effecively being cut just because of that. Not to mention the difficulties this makes in comparing prices. I don't know if RAOs are in some way penalisable (if that's evan a word) for such things, but others won't be.
This is going back a bit and quoting my own posting but I was reading BAJR's response to the IFA consultation with regard to advertising and the JIS made me think of this again...
If a company advertises on BAJR (or anywhere else) that they do an X hour week, and then it turns out that this regularly involves unpaid overtime, particularly travelling several hours to a site, doing a full day then travelling back, should they be allowed to get away with what is clearly a false statement in their advert? It is effectively the same as advertising a specific pay scale to meet BAJR's criteria and then coming up with some reason to pay less when the job is actually awarded. Just a thought... after all doing 38 hours a week for £15,000 does not equal the same as doing 50 hours per week for the same amount now does it? If some form of TOIL is offered that is fair enough, but is it in some cases?
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25th September 2008, 05:23 PM
This is going back a bit and quoting my own posting but I was reading BAJR's response to the IFA consultation with regard to advertising and the JIS made me think of this again...
If a company advertises on BAJR (or anywhere else) that they do an X hour week, and then it turns out that this regularly involves unpaid overtime, particularly travelling several hours to a site, doing a full day then travelling back, should they be allowed to get away with what is clearly a false statement in their advert? It is effectively the same as advertising a specific pay scale to meet BAJR's criteria and then coming up with some reason to pay less when the job is actually awarded. Just a thought... after all doing 38 hours a week for £15,000 does not equal the same as doing 50 hours per week for the same amount now does it? If some form of TOIL is offered that is fair enough, but is it in some cases?
[/quote]
This scenario is exactly why so many employers started offering accomodation near to the site! and may have fallen foul of the Revnue.....
Some offer TOIL, some offer overtime, or a shorter day on site (some only to the driver for all of these) and some don't offer any at all. And the overtime can be plain time.
The details are often in the contract (e.g. if travel time to site is less than half an hour you don't get compensation) and once again often take account of the Revenue's rules on pay/expenses. Of course, the fact that many people don't get given a copy of their contract/terms and conditions/staff handbook is often an issue.
It's the sort of thing I ask when I'm offered a job. (I would point out, however, that very many people regularly travel over an hour each way, unpaid, to their place of work!)
edited due to beinf incapable of stringing a sensible sentence together!
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25th September 2008, 05:59 PM
Quote:quote:It's the sort of thing I ask when I'm offered a job. (I would point out, however, that very many people regularly travel over an hour each way, unpaid, to their place of work!)
Absolutely, oldgirl, I used to always ask as well. I say that it depends on where your contract defines as your 'normal place of work'.
<harrumph mode on>
To return to my previous theme on the JIS:
"A man is required to play Henry VIII at Hampton Court Palace in 2009. Requirements include: must be over 6â tall with a large frame (playing age 40-50 years), the ability to grow a beard, interested & knowledgeable about the Tudor period & must live within an easy commute of the palace."
They really are just taking the piss now. This one doens't even mention money, and implies that their money for milage is severely limited. Are the IFA really aiming to provide a service for professional archaeologists, or for out of work actors?
</harrumph mode off>
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26th September 2008, 11:24 AM
I did, especially like 'ability to grow a beard'. HRP raise a lot of their money through corporate events so there would be quite a bit of evening and late work. Why would you pay the milage for someone to commute to a fixed place of work from where they choose to live?
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26th September 2008, 11:42 AM
Quote:quote:
This scenario is exactly why so many employers started offering accomodation near to the site! and may have fallen foul of the Revnue.....
Some offer TOIL, some offer overtime, or a shorter day on site (some only to the driver for all of these) and some don't offer any at all. And the overtime can be plain time.
The details are often in the contract (e.g. if travel time to site is less than half an hour you don't get compensation) and once again often take account of the Revenue's rules on pay/expenses. Of course, the fact that many people don't get given a copy of their contract/terms and conditions/staff handbook is often an issue.
It's the sort of thing I ask when I'm offered a job. (I would point out, however, that very many people regularly travel over an hour each way, unpaid, to their place of work!)
I have to say, despite reading as much as I could of the thread on taxed accommodation, that I don't quite understand that particular situation.... anyway, my point was really to do with the way in which a job might be advertised, rather than the actual fact when you arrived. Asking at an early stage is obviously a good idea, but if it was advertised as X hours per week why would you necessarily feel the need to ask if that was true? It would hardly please a potential employer!
As for the amount of time spent travelling to a fixed place of work - that is really your own look out, although in the harsh realities of short-term contracts it's not quite that easy.
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26th September 2008, 01:40 PM
doesn't that all depend on whether you're self employed or not- employed mileage to fixed place of work is taxable. Self employed travel to contract site is effectively a tax deduction. Or I have I got that wrong...
also don't forget that in England since single status phase 1 Local Government overtime is only payable at single time monday-friday and at time and a half at weekends. 1 hour will be deducted from claims over 3 hours for the 'compulsory break'. Toil (for those over scp 2:face-thinks: is at single time. Most private employers won't pay overtime or toil over a certain pay grade.
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26th September 2008, 02:43 PM
A beard!!! a frikin beard! but what about the cash ... this is exactly the thing!
It does not take much to check it out... and provide a service..
[:o)]
I also would like to say that the advert specifications are clearly stated to people who advertise... the pay is worked out on 37.5 hour week. so the pay must reflect that... otherwise the advert is falsification... and can be used as proof for the specifications... the advert is public and binding.
As another company found out - saying it on an advert and then doing something else results in removal from BAJR contractor list and banning from advertising. --- they were given ample time to sort it out... but decided to ignore it...
If an advert states a benefit or a salary... that is what you must get... Unpaid overtime - look to your contract. And read it.. and keep it.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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26th September 2008, 04:00 PM
Quote:quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host
I also would like to say that the advert specifications are clearly stated to people who advertise... the pay is worked out on 37.5 hour week. so the pay must reflect that... otherwise the advert is falsification... and can be used as proof for the specifications... the advert is public and binding.
As another company found out - saying it on an advert and then doing something else results in removal from BAJR contractor list and banning from advertising. --- they were given ample time to sort it out... but decided to ignore it...
If an advert states a benefit or a salary... that is what you must get... Unpaid overtime - look to your contract. And read it.. and keep it.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
I knew you would be on top of it, even while in Jordan, assuming you still are. It does rely on people reporting such abuses though, which they might not be keen on if they're trying not to upset the boss!
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27th September 2008, 02:43 PM
Quote:quote:It does rely on people reporting such abuses though
Thats the one! Action can only happen if somebody comes forward (at the time) - It is a shame that some companies are cynical enough to rely on fear to keep the truth from coming out. Though it is fortunately not widespread.
It does make me
though.
Talking of which ... when I left .. the IFA were working on the Tax issue... (any news??) and I have still to hear back about a couple of other things I passed on. Any news on the legal situation of freelance either? Anyone other than me want to email Tim Howard direct (as I am not an IFA member any more)
Talking of which... the IFA Council elections are coming up ( Yes i know... but hey... I am sure I was just now ready for the position) And TWO DIGGERS FORUM people are standing for election --- lets get them in... time for more fieldworkers on their Council.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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28th September 2008, 12:26 PM
Yep comes back to ol' hostys earlier post - if we are prepared to take and stay in jobs where this sort of thing happens then we have to accept that we will perpetuate the practice.
More whistle blowers please!!!!!!!
They cant sack us all (hopefully) :face-huh:
