IfA Minima Debate - THE RESULT

[monty]

Once again the big units with their major influence in IfA get what they want........ pay the people keeping them in a comfy job bugger all, do a crap job and get away with it...nowt changes and probably never will. Will be interesting to see how many people do not renew their IfA memberships this year....IFA/IfA began as an old boys club and always will be.

[Unitof1]

well then, what should I charge and how -presuming that you accept that self employed archaeologists exist and that they compete with the basic costs of excavation. How do I endeavour to turn this into a price or rate for a job

Bajr rates:

G1 : Training Position) £15,054.00 (£289.00 pw)
G2 : (ie Basic Site Assistant) £16,018.73 (£308.05 pw)
G3 : (ie Site Assistant 2 or Technical 1£17,097.51 (£328.81 pw)
G 3/4 : (ie Senior Site Assistant or Technical 1 or Junior Supervisor ) £17,874.30 (£343.74 pw)
G4 : (ie Technical 2 or Supervisor )£18,657.84 (£358.81 pw)
G 4/5 : (ie Senior Technical / Supervisor / Junior Project Officer )£20,063.26 (£385.83 pw)
G 5 : (ie Specialist 1, or Project Officer SMR Asst. £21,332.86
G 5/6 : (ie Senior Specialist, SMR post and Project Officer or Junior Manager) £24,159.43
G 6 : (ie Specialist 2, Senior SMR Post or Project Manager)£26,795.17
G 7 : (ie Directorial and Senior Management) £34,523.90+

you have got two grades that have something that might do with how much you want the price of a context to excavate to cost. Those positions are not pifas the lowest level of membership but who the ifa want this for

IFA rates

The recommended starting salaries for 2013-14 are increased to

• PIfA-level competence/responsibility: £19,853 - £20,926
  
• AIfA-level competence/responsibility: £29,123 – 31,561
  
• MIfA-level competence/responsibility: £36,552 - £40,276
  

with this mention about the self employed

In 2012 IfA amended its Code of conduct to require its members who are employers (including self-employed) to endeavour to meet or exceed the recommended minima.

[BAJR]

you have got two grades that have something that might do with how much you want the price of a context to excavate to cost.

Gibberish
Those positions are not pifas the lowest level of membership but who the ifa want this for
and this has a point?

BAJR does not set rates. it sets minima for which people can advertise. it had the additional benefit of adding structure. there was a brief thread about alteration of this system, but then ...... well..

The recommended starting salaries for 2013-14 are increased to

• PIfA-level competence/responsibility: £19,853 - £20,926
  

Hmmm nice misquoting of what they are...



So once again.... ideas or more statements that when examined mean little ?


People like Martin and Doug ( for example ) ... Kevin and many others... Trowelfodder etc. make effort to provide answers, or add positive critique or try and make things better...

They get shot down, talked down and we get nowhere...

I am self employed. I know what I do... I know why ... I would be happy to explain and also what sort of rates I would charge to equate to paid saleried posts ( - which some people choose as a lifestyle )

Oh hold on.... I have already done all that, and even make an effort to make positive changes.


In reality, answers are harder than saying things like


"what should I charge and how -presuming that you accept that self employed archaeologists exist and that they compete with the basic costs of excavation. How do I endeavour to turn this into a price or rate for a job"

and then go on to not even bother answering. Top discussion...

:face-approve:

[Martin Locock]

One of the points that emerged from the Diggers Forum session at TAG was a consultant (sorry can't remember who!) who said that these days his advice to developers for evaluation was based not on the bogeyman of a showstopper Schedulable site but on the need to manage and quantify any heritage element, tieing in with this problem of forcing archaeologists to take the risk.

[Unitof1]

not sure martin that bajr wants to understand that I cant work out from his or the ifas pay minimas a price to charge selfemployed equivalents.. We are not even getting close to differentiating between pre and post dertermination evaluation. In bajrs system the diggers who dug up rickeee were probably on some average salary. I give the subject up.

I am not sure that any advice to developers for an evaluation was ever based on the bogeyman of a showstopper schedulable site apart from contingency and my contingency was to promise that if I got the slightest sniff that the site was more than what I thought it would be that evaluation would end and that we could then evaluate the evaluation. Implicit in stopping the evaluation early was that it would be cheaper than the original contract estimates.

[BAJR]

In bajrs system the diggers who dug up rickeee were probably on some average salary. I give the subject up.

Hmmm the real deal at last... You give up.. as you don't actually have anything to add to the debate.

not sure martin that bajr wants to understand that I cant work out from his or the ifas pay minimas a price to charge selfemployed equivalents..

Has been discussed several times and rates for matching these Grades posted. of course as self Employed people can charge what they see fit, it is not possible to 'create' self employed rates. All that has been done in the past is a suggestion to guide people that if ( IF ) they want to match the G2 rate, then it will be about 100-120 pd. HOWEVER. they can charge more or less.

One of my rates is 225 - 275 pd

As this discussion is about minima and the Ifa it is best to keep to it.

however, you don't actually want to contribute. so perhaps it is best that you do give up the subject.

[Unitof1]

I do. Not being into salaries does make it pretty difficult to get excited about minima. Not being able to work out what a digger is or does makes it even more difficult but that is not surprising because I dont understand skills passport and what cpd is. How you as a selfemployed person work out that people should be salaried and what a salaried persons minima should be beats me. It must be some kind of altruisum which I dont posses. How do you turn 225-275 into a minima?

[BAJR]

How do you turn 225-275 into a minima?

I don't... I am self employed. I charge what I feel I am worth. Charge what you are worth charge what people will pay. provide a service.

Stop trying to conflate Self Employed with Employed. and sole trader with company. ( and the same goes to FAME who is always banging on about how we sole traders are undercutting them ... yup... like we do on the pipeline projects )

The Grades are one thing... and designed to stabilise and inform people what they are and do.

To help people understand what it is to make the same as an employed G2 ( read what that entails depending on what you do) then it was handy to know about 100- 120 would mean roughly the same... --- but then you would say... what is the point in that. I may as well be employed... and get benefits...

You charge what you want. I charge what I want. now you know... you can undercut me

[Unitof1]

But by holding to a salary structure for digging you are in effect averageing the cost of digging a context over time so that there is an average cost to excavate all contexts. That means that excavting a context is based on time taken not on significance. By setting a minima salary you are saying that the system that you endorse for pricing all contexts for the next year irrespective of significance is what ever has been agreed.

Where as in your self employed position you would want to have information from an evaluation to give your price for an excavation. In the price agreed salary system you have have no way of negotiating a different price for digging up Rickeees grave than for any other grave bar taking a little bit longer over it.

[BAJR]

ut by holding to a salary structure for digging you are in effect averageing the cost of digging a context over time so that there is an average cost to excavate all contexts.

No...

That means that excavting a context is based on time taken not on significance

er no... and what?

By setting a minima salary you are saying that the system that you endorse for pricing all contexts for the next year irrespective of significance is what ever has been agreed.

er... no, what and WTF?

I do wonder if you have ever project managed?