Metal Detecting Q&A

[Steve-B]

quote:There is nothing that your average artefact hunter would bother with, but the same argument should apply.

With respect Mercenary, what the heck do you know that I as an artefact hunter would bother with?

Can I ask that before making a comment such as this, pop along to my shop and take a look through my finds, you might then want to rethink that statement.

Of course theere are artefact hunters that practically drool over the tought of making 'THE FIND', whereas in reality the majority of us would not waste what can be a satifying and intellectually rwading hobby chasing a dream.

My most prized find, that I show to most visitors to the shop, before the bronze age spearhead, roman coins, or my one Treasure Find, is in fact an early 20thC bronze casting of the three wise monkeys, see no evil, hear evil, talk no evil, which was and I still think is, shown on Corinnes website.

Why?, because it was a personal posession, that when I hold it, almost puts me in touh with the last owner, in a way that 'Treasure' never could.

I have several finds such as this, that in a purely monetary sense are worthless, but to me are priceless...

Try to bear in mind that Treasure means different things to different people.

[DAZ 1900]

Hi all,

After a great opening post Post by Steve it is such a shame that the discussion has taken this unfortunate turn, it would be great to see it back on track!

As this is only my 2nd Post on the Forum i would like to Re-introduce myself! I am Darren and am an active Detectorist and have been now for 7 years, i Detect in East Yorkshire and report and record all my finds with the SMR/HER I have no quarrel with Archaeologists and prefer to work alongside to help build up a picture of history locally (National History has it's importance and i do support it as does the PAS and it's goals which i also support!)But i feel local Archaeologists can benefit greatly from my results which is why i report directly to them!.

I know it has already been covered at length by Steve in his earlier posts but if anyone wants to ask any questions about how i do things or in turn offer comments both good and bad i will take on board and/or answer as honest as i can. I often tire or despair at seeing the same old arguments and wish to see not only "Bridge-Building" but a respect for one another,we all have a duty to the Archaeological Resource in one way or another and how i see it is this " I take out of the Ploughsoil so i should put back as much by way of imformation as i can" and by conversing with Archaeologists such as David and others who believe that Detecting has a place in Archaeology i found myself asking my local Archaeologists what they would like to see from me rather than the other way around.

B.A.J.R is a fantastic Ambassador for both Archaeology and Detecting and i try to promote active recording and it's ideals to other Detectorists that ask me for advice.


Best wishes to all

Darren


P.S We now have an opportunity on this most Respected Forum to talk to Academics who share the idea of cooperation, so please let's not spoil this chance to engage in fruitful dialogue here, the tedious political in-fighting can be left for another time and a different Forum.

Many thanks and apologies for the long post

Wishing you all a Happy New Year.

[BAJR Host]

Thats the posts that get somewhere! cheers there.



Another day another WSI?

[Steve-B]

quote:STEVE-B, what is your response to Paul Barford's assertion that the essential difference between MDs/Artefact Hunters and Archaeologists is that the MD/AH is in pursuit of the construction of a private artefact collection while the Archaeologist pursues the dissemination of knowledge to the general public through the pursuit of guideline controlled fieldwork?

Beerbeast, great name by the way...

As I have mentioned in another thread, Paul is actually stating the blindingly obvious. Of course we are driven by different goals..same as the early prot archaeologists were driven by different goals in your professions infancy....and just like them I believe that we are starting to see small but progressive changes in as you call us, artefact hunters, demonstrably so as Gary, Pete, I amd others are promoting recording and the setting of standards.

The first thing we all have to accept is that metal detecting is not archaeology, dispite claims that detecing is taking finds out of archaeological context, in 99% of the cases this just is not so, like it or not, most detecting finds are those that have no other context than the topsoil of the field they now lie in, untilwe find them, 99% of the time in foelds that most arhcaeologists will never visit.

Artefact hunting if used properly cqan b utilised to fill in the gaps in between the pucker in context archaeological sites.

The topic of private collecting is subjective to each individauls moralistic code, although I see your (archaeologists) perspective, it is not one I can subscribe to, one because I feel that diversity of collections leads to diversity of thought... and without this thne all understanding is stagnant and dead...

Secondly, if you deny private colecting, where do you stop...soley with your own selfish definition of antiquities...or should you not take it to Nth degree and ban all private ownership..afer all I am sure there are others in the world, that are against other areas of private ownership, be it classic cars, lather shoes, or the house you live in... you only wish to limit it to antiquities as that is your particular area of interest... commendable but some might argueselfish and elitist.

Now we can spend the rest of eternity arguing about the crap that gets us nowehere or we can accept each others failings.. for the time being.... and explore the ways in which we can work together.

In discussing this point, what have we resolved..in what way have we safegaurded detecting finds that will be made tomorrow?

Why did you not ask the question..how can we work together on setting standards and promoting recording?

Surely this would have ben more productive in the long term... if we can work together in the short term on less ambitious areas then this will only go to make it allthe more easier to work together in more important areas... why walk before we can run...

[DAZ 1900]

Hi BB and Steve,

If i may add my thoughts on this!!

I maybe entirely wrong here and way off mark and if i am i apologise unreservadely but i was lead to believe that the Coin/Artefact is of little importance without the imformation of it's location/context.
Pauls thoughts on this particular subject does indeed provoke thought for some and a confliction for others, like all Archaeologists the protection and management of the finite resource probably ranks at the very top of Pauls list of concerns.As one of the sternist critics of Detecting Practices he would like to see a change in the way the hobby is conducted, i personally have no problem with this and both commend and respect Paul for his persistance in this area.

However my take on the subject of Artefact Hunting/Collecting is that while privite artefact/coin collections will continue so will the discovery of new uncharted sites, more and more detectorists both new and old are becoming aware of the need to record and it is ultimately up to us recording detectorists to promote recording (something which i already do)and through combined responsible detecting and recording practices these sites can be examined and the information added to the SMR/HER. I think that detecting has it's place within Archaeology, Bone and Pottery will go a long way to determine the nature of a site, but with the addition of information given in the form of metallic objects found by detector users going about their hobby must surely also help.Metallic objects have been used by man for well over three millenia, i believe they like other ancient materials have their place in Archaeology, our museums are full of them, the whole perception of Academic thinking can be altered by the discovery of a single coin that maybe of unknown type or mintage or the discovery of a metallic artefact of great rarity, but all of this leads back to the subject of active recording where heirin lies the problem between the detectorist and the Archaeologist.

Best Wishes

Darren

[DAZ 1900]

Hi BeerBeast,

I am sorry i have not seen the post by PMP but i will look for it!

In reply to your question i hold all items of history with great reverance and love the medieval/ post med era for me our finest periods of history[8D] both i and my detecting partner record with full n.g.r's but our detectors are programmed for non ferrous items, maybe we should alter our level of discrimination to include this particular field of study as ferrous/iron items is an avenue that we have never explored and the SMR likes a good mystery

Many thanks for the input BB!!

Best Wishes

Darren

[mercenary]

Steve-B,

I of course have no idea what interests you personally. How could I? My assorted pot sherd and flint collection, retained for use as a reference collection to show community groups and schools is pretty interesting to them, but the MD's I know don't find it particularly stimulating. Come to think of it neither do my archaeological colleagues! You have already demonstated on this forum that you are not an "average atefact hunter", so you may well be interested in my collection. By the way your three wise monkeys would have pride of place in my assemblage.

Sorry, I'm already falling into the endemic defensive posture that this thread seems to create. My comments were to illustrate that I agree that personal collections are acceptable in some cases.

[Steve-B]

No worries... was just using my usual tactless style of writing to make a point...

To be frank with you, and I am sure the other detectorists on here would agree, we would love to have a pottery expert on the forums to help with IDing (although probably not too easy to do online), This was discussed when I was a part of the UKDFD, but it was only the practicalities and lack of expertise that stopped us from at the time accepting pottery records...nothing to do with them not being metallic...

Pottery does play an important part of the hobby, we are by the very method of detecting, field walking eyes only at the same time and most of us collect pottery sherds, clay pipe stems etc...

Pre PAS days I have taken bags load of the stuff into my then County Museum for IDing...

There are a couple of books written for the hobby in respect of pottery.

Its quite bizarre but when I found the brass monkeys, the very next signal was a small, worn Roman bronze coin... not six inches away,but separated by 1800 years!

[mercenary]

I now own a few finds reference books both on pottery and metal finds that were designed for the metal detectorist market. I find them much more useful guides than most because they have colour photographs. I recently ID'd a chariot lynch pin terminal from one that the finds people had no idea about. (I heartily recommend the Nigel Mills books if any archs out there are interested)

I also occasionally buy metal detecting guides for the same reason, despite never metal detecting for fun. This came about when I realized my complete ignorance about some finds categories compared to the metal detectorists I was working with.

By the way I'm not a pot specialist, I'm very much a generalist.

[muddyandcold]

Interesting thread. I have always found that MDs are an invaluable resource on site and have done ever since as a lowly digger on a roman temple site I witnessed the horrific results of not utilising this tool. The site director absolutely refused to allow MDs on site... as a result, walking over the spoil heap at tea/lunch breaks it was not uncommon to find coins and brooches.

Like it or lump it MDS are essential on sites. However, it does take time to become procifficent in the usage of - and I for one find the use of totally boring. I always use a local MD club, so i maybe have to give up the occassional evening/weekend, but i ensure that i get professionals on site. Also local clubs will know of any local 'night hawks' and will be happy to point them out to you.

Whilst i am always on the look out for bargins, so if the offer of a discouted MD is still on offer steve send me details, I would never consider myself experienced enough to replace the professional MD user.