Movement on the living wage?

[trowelhead]

Good Old PFJ again. Never ceases to amaze me with archaeologists...

Close enough for a country job!

[vulpes]

And what is PFJ when it's at home?

[Cautionary Tale]

People's Front of Judea?

Will be reading the docs posted by Hosty with interest. I agree that the different classes of unit (fully commericial, uni integrated, council integrated, part charity etc etc) makes this a minefield for widespread consensus, and I applaud those at the cutting edge :face-approve: I'll keep my fingers crossed for lots more units getting union involvement, and higher attendances/membership at the diggers forum, IFA conferences and prospect meetings to push this on.

I maiali sono alimentati e aspettano per volare

[BAJR Host]

Trouble with those at the cutting edge... you get cut!

Lets hope that the cutting edge becomes the norm ...

(Pure Flipping Jenius?) well you already knew I could not spell.



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[trowelfodder]

Way I see it is that I cant make a living at archaeology long term - horror of horror Id like to settle or at least be based in one place and possibly even have some semblence of a normal family life - if ever going to happen the proffession has to change!

So the only option I can see is to get involved and if you get stung you get stung - may annoy a few units but its a diggers market at the moment. Its not right to sit back and let others take all the risks just because your to weak to assume some responcability for the progression of your chosen proffession!!

And if nothing changes and i have to leave at least i cun say i went down fighting and tried everything i could to make things better

[BAJR Host]

As someone said to me today - head of a large unit... (but I ain't saying where) now is the best time for years to hold out for decent pay... if you (as a digger - or whatever) go and work for the bare minimum then thats all you are worth.... take up the banner as Trowel says... be part of it instead of hoping someone else will do it for you...

Go on... you ... yes YOU ... YOU AT THE BACK... stop sidling away... what do you want? Fair pay (not massive pay... but fair pay) or poverty?

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[voice of reason]

poverty?

just hypothetically, does free accomm, tax-free subs of £40-50 a week plus a wage of £270 pw count as poverty?

a dollar a day, child labour and nowhere to live, that's what I call poverty

[BAJR Host]

Depends which country you are in...

As a person who has worked in Countries such as Iraq, Turkministan, India etc... a dollar a day can actually mean you can survive.. a dollar a day here... you can't.

Median earnings of full-time male employees was £487 per week in April 2006; for women the median was £387. You compared to the average... no we are not well off... we are not on starvation line.. (well sometimes ... have you ever eaten food off someone elses table? or Slept in doorways?)

It was more a turn of phrase relating to people working a hard day (in the UK) and getting a fair wage... not a massive overinflated wage... but a fair wage...

Poverty takes many forms... in this country it can be not having the ability to have a mortgage.. or run a car... or have children or .....

It all depends... The poverty you describe is indeed terrible poverty... and the rates you describe are not bad at all...(for now) but does that hypothitical situation last for ever... or is it temporary.. and then the worker is left to find more work...the savings made before now dwindling to nothing.


"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[tom wilson]

In reply to VoR, I'd say that being unable to afford to bring up kids is a pretty good indicator of poverty (Is there something in the UN declaration on human rights about it? I'll check later). There's plenty of people like that. I recall a supervisor once telling me he'd officially walked out on the mother of his newborn child, so that she could claim benefit and they'd have enough money to live.

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host


... have you ever eaten food off someone elses table? or Slept in doorways?)

There's a fair sprinkling of archaeologists that have. Mostly the older ones, I admit.

Of course, unlike poverty in poorer countries, all this heartache has one easy and obvious solution: get a different job. The mystery is why the glorious free market hasn't pushed archaeological wages up, and I think that is to do with our lack of accreditation.

'In the busy market there are fortunes to be won and lost, but in the cherry orchard there is peace'.
Chinese proverb

[voice of reason]

You are not comparing eggs with eggs.

Median earnings figures include all age ranges, including those just starting their working lives and those at their maximum earning capacity (generally in the late 40s/early 50s). What is the equivalent median for all archaeologists, which would be a better comparison? Comparing the wage aspirations of someone in their first job still learning the trade with no supervisory responsibilities with someone of 15 years or more experience is unhelpful.

Poverty is indeed relative, but how many archaeologists at 'digger' grade can't afford their fags and beer, which were not high on the on the list of subsistence items last time I looked. Personally as an observer, I think the real financial squeeze is currently on the next grades up, those who have settled in one place, got a secure job with a company and taken on eg mortgage or permanent rent, maybe looking to start a family, get a pension etc without the benefit of regular subs as a cash injection and free accomm.