value

[troll]

Oh, to live in a world where everything is so wonderfully simple...Rose-tinted glasses I`m afraid Vulpes.Don`t you think for a moment that "changing things from the inside" is a concept that has already been thought of and, tried before? Could it also be possible that IFA surveys were so naff that I could`nt reveal opinion on here? My apologies Vulpes but-your only real accuracy there was that the IFA do indeed represent their members. Unfortunately, they don`t police them and worse, don`t represent the majority of field archaeologists either. Perhaps you would like to come and do my job for a while and give me a chuckle too?

[the invisible man]

We seem to be covering a lot of old ground again! What exactly does "police" mean? I know of no other professional institute that polices its members. There will never be an IFA van screeching up to a site to check the quality of the work, nor will one ever rush out with blue lights flashing in response to a complaint or allegation. That is not what institutes do.

There are some things that even a perfect IFA could not change, or would find very difficult to change - pay for example. Would a mandatory pay scale be legal, feasible or enforcable? Or even desirable?

[vulpes]

My heart bleeds Troll, I used to do 'your job' 5 years ago, when things were similar if not worse. There's nothing particularly noble about wanting to be a site assistant forever, it just shows a regrettable lack of ambition on your part. It is possible to be a field archaeologist and earn more than 12-13K, still get your hands dirty, enjoy what you do and stick with it for 8 years plus. Oh, and I wasn't laughing at your share in our general misfortune if you check carefully.... Well here's the paragraph again:

"Abstaining from a survey because of some (unspecified) critical stance, and then criticising that survey for being unrepresentative because it doesn't include you and other similarly principled individuals is bizarre, nonsensical and gave me a good chuckle. Thanks."

Just to re-reiterate, if you don't participate in a survey it won't represent you, so who are you criticising here. If a survey is unrepresentative because of the apathetic or antipathetic - these are the parties at fault. Not the people who have gone to the trouble of setting up the survey and presenting its results. I give up. :face-topic:

[BAJR Host]

Careful please... I like a good arguement... but it should lead somewhere.

I think also that the PIFA level and even AIFA levels might not represent what is actual grades. (strangley I know a curator who is PIFA and another who is AIFA... add to that several senior management figures who are AIFA and the number of actual diggers might be well under 200 out of 1660 is not whopping by any stretch. But then you are right... without being in the IFA then that number will not go up. So where are we ... as Invisible says... old ground (which is quite a good place for archaeologists)

The reasons for the antipathy for teh IFA have to be addressed - a reason to join other than being told that joining is the only way to make it change... the need to change and the will should be there first to attract people to a fresh and vibrant organisation. The Diggers Group is meeeting in Cambridge soon

23rd April in fact

http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...p?page=151

So if you want to see change.. then it is there.. a seed perhaps... but it welcomes those who are non IFA as well as IFA.. so doors open... [:I]

[Digger]

I wonder if the IFA has ever thought about getting some extra bonus for its members? As we contribute to the heritage of the country how about discounted entry to EH and NT sites? Would offer current members more than a glossy mag and may even encourage new members.

Secondly, I am aware that the IFA recieves only a small number of votes from members during elections. Perhaps through BAJR the elections can be promoted, the candidates scrutinised and voting encouraged. Not voting means that you are happy with the status quo, so not voting and then complaining about who got in is rather pointless.

Not suggesting BAJR go all political but half the time I wouldn't have a clue about any of the candidates. By doing this we could look for candidates who represent the coal face and we CAN then change it from within.

[moey]

I am new to this forum and it's giving me a v. bad opinion of archaeologists (not archaeology). I have been reading for a few days and all I've seen are complaints about the lack of pay and how bad the IFA are. Sure i realise conditions need improving and sick pay should be a given and any organsiation that claims to represnt people will inevitabley have shortcomings (the government for example!!)! Anyway I don't want to sound like I'm attacking people, it's just I haven't heard solutions, it just seems to be griping! Be thankful you're not working in a nike sweatshop for 2p a day! if they even get that much....

[troll]

Vulpes-again, my apologies if I have offended you-not my intention and, don`t give up! Welcome Moey, points taken- however, if all we heard from the shop floor was resounding silence, there would be little room for introspection, evaluation and ultimately change. You are right, plenty of griping going on here. It has to be said that without the griping, change just would`nt be on the table. Most of my colleagues love their job but are not at all fond of the fact that it falls within the realms of commercialism and associated behaviour. You will find that BAJR is really the only place where issues are aired and taken seriously-the IFA would call it "lies and slander". Nowt like a good bitchin sesh to clear the sphincter......

[BAJR Host]

Cheers there Troll.... and true... the Diger and BAJR are the palces where you can moan and gripe... but it is turned into a real effort for change. Only by hearing the gripes and groans can something be done.... either the gripes explained or the moans recognised and then acted on. Whether it is pay.... conditions.... policy... Digger Forums.... Disciple..... openess... information... etc etc... it is only by knowing what is wrong that we can work on a solution... so be heartened that people have a place to voice there feelings (right or wrong ) ... they all ave to be known

[troll]

Amen.Huzzah.Choccy bikkies.The mutts nuts. When there aint no none moanin-thats the time to worry cos we is plottin dastardly deeds in the tool-shed.....

[deepdigger]

Hold on now boys and girls before we get carried away, self employed people (like me) need to earn more than employed. we don't get the holiday or sickness benefits. and when the job is finished we get laid off til the next one, so dont think that self employed is best, its not always and its not for everyone!!!!!

deep