Ask not what a Union can do for you (2)....

[BAJR]

Thank you Gnome king for stirring my blood again... this is no fun run or charity case.. no messing about or piece of fluff.. we are preparing for the next meeting with ALL the unions.. yes all of them... and the IFA and the Diggers Forum and us... this is it.. a real chance to make a change... 20 years!! 20 bloody years.. well this is it...

thank you

[BAJR]

The Prime Minister's vision of a "big society" should include the UK's seven million trade union members, an official will urge.

Paul Noon, general secretary of Prospect, will say the Government needs to listen to "the voice of the professional", democratically expressed at the workplace through trade unions.
In his keynote address to the union's biennial national conference in Liverpool, Mr Noon will also call on employers to heed the views of engineers, scientists, managers and other professionals on how their organisations should be run more effectively.

"Trade unions have been doing the big society for 200 years," he will say.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/9107177

[Wax]

I have always felt that within archaeology there just are not enough of us to actually have much impact on the terms and conditions of our employment. Or should that be we just do not act together.

In theory if we all (and I mean all!!!!!!) withdrew our services for a week the industries we serve might realise they need us.

However it is the unwillingness to act together that holds us back. There is always someone else out there desperate for a job who will undercut prices. And there are those so desperate for experience and to get their foot on the ladder that they will do the job for nothing.

I am all for unions and have in the past belonged to one. I am now just making up my mind which one to join as an archaeologist.

However what we really need is a chartered organisation that has teeth. An organisation you have to belong to practice as an Archaeologist with proper peer review possibly even examination and open to amateur and professional alike.}

Unless the unions we join support us whole heartedly I am not sure that ultimately they will instigate much change.

[FONT=&quot] I remember the days before Maggie when unions use to bus people in from across the country to support picket lines for professions unrelated to their own. I wonder what other professions out there would now do that for field archaeologists?

But if you do not try you have no one to blame but yourself so I for one will be doing a bit of research and joining a union.

WAX
[/FONT]

[Dinosaur]

.....if we all (and I mean all!!!!!!) withdrew our services for a week the industries we serve might realise they need us....

....eeerr, I'd quite like to still have a firm to work for, thankyou! :0
Couldn't you come up with some slightly less damaging form of protest?

[BAJR]

I have an idea... what about getting behind the Charter?? :face-approve: Then you will have a strong firm to work for.

[troll]

As a member of Prospect and a recent convert to unionisation (after seeing it work!! Huzzah!) I now receive the Prospect magazine "Profile". I read this cover to cover now and look forward to every issue. The last issue had me and the missus in tears of laughter to find that the union even has a solicitor in the emplopyment department. Presumably when a member gets themselves in the sh*t ?

See Profile Issue 3 May 2010 p22. Bless em`........:face-approve:

[trowelfodder]

"....eeerr, I'd quite like to still have a firm to work for, thankyou! :0
Couldn't you come up with some slightly less damaging form of protest?"

But isn't that the point of collective bargining - that it wouldnt just be your firm that was affected but the industry and collectively they would have to engage in constructive dialogue AND initiate change.

Striking is a last resort but we do need to have an industry prepared to take this step if all other forms of protest fail - i dont think anyone is sugguesting it as a first option

[destroyingangel]

Why all the blustering and introspection? The bottom line is... if you don't want to be part of a union, then don't join one. If you're happy with the current situation (well, actually one that has been around for the past 20+ years) then 'keep calm and carry on'. If you feel you have the necessary nadjers and right to make your stand alone... then great. Look after number one, before you look after anyone else. If you want to just ride the archaeological pony (while yer young) before you join the real world (become an accountant or lawyer) then fair enough... it's a great career break/gap year (or five) jolly. But, if you (like me) actually find archaeology just too excellent a job, and actually want to make a proper career out of it, then who you going to turn to if you get into difficulty ("that nasty employer has done me wrong") or it all goes pear-shape? What happens if you (heaven forbid) want a mortgage? The bank of mum and dad will come to your aid? Maybe, but they are not there forever. Your bank manager? Yeah, right! Please! I'm not saying that unions have the answer to these questions (well, in fact some of them do... counselling services if you starts to feel the emotional stress, hardship funds to tide you over, credit and mortgage advice at much reduced costs). If you are just plain apathetic... yeah whatever. Whatever your reason for not joining, it's yours alone...

If it's about politics, then fair enough. But in this day and age, we need (both individually and as a group) all the back-up we can get. Yes, the unions support political parties (OK... one party), but on the whole they are there for individuals and groups that have no political affliation. I'd even go as far as saying that there are some union members who are not lefty-trotsky, SWP types... some may even consider themselves 'middle of the road', Green (me) or have centre-right tendencies. They've joined a union because they've put their political stance to one side to accrue the benefits of having some form of back-up. Remember, it is NOT obligatory that you have stand on a picket line if your union wants to make a protest.

If it's all about cost... another fair point. But in reality it is (generally) such a small amount in comparison to other things. Furthermore, many (if not all) unions have some form of subsidy scheme... the amount paid is based on what your earn. If it ain't much (as is generally the case with archaeologists) then they'll take account of that. If you're unemployed, they'll also take account of that and reduce it to pennies (Ok... a few pounds). Forgo the odd pint or fish-n-chip take-away and you're covered.

To some (the outside world) archaeology has been, is and always will be a vocation, not a profession. To me, we just can't carry on this way... something needs to be done. It needs to be done now. Being part of a union is a start... solidarity for a change. Having a chartered organisation should be next. If not, then we'll still be here chewing the archaeological fat (moaning about the past, present and future of archaeology) for years to come. Keep buggering on.

[BAJR]

Next meeting is being prepared now... looks like mid July... such is the way of trying to bring the maximum number of people together on the same day.
But lets get this right... PROSPECT, UNITE and UNISON are all interested in this as are the IfA. the BWA and BAJR as well as the Diggers Forum are all invovled...

If you have not done it yet.. then get hold of the draft discussion paper.. a whole page long! Print it out and spend a tea break talking...

http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/showthread.php?...TER-DEBATE

And yes Destroying Angel... thats the long and the short of it. Its up to personal choice... do you want a profession or what?

[Geli]

I certainly think that unionisation is the way forward. Having seen the steady erosion of standards within archaeology - both in relation to the terms of doing a quality job and what people are paid to do it i think a grass roots initiative to rectify the situation is long over due. It is pretty clear that we cannot expect leadership in this direction from those at the higher level of employment within the profession. Competitive tendering has driven wages and standards down in real terms and it is clear that unit owners and management have been complicit in this. While people in these positions may not be in reality living off the fat of the land (nobody in archaeology really does & probably never will), they are still not the individuals who suffer the most from the shaving off of costs here and there. I believe that unionisation holds the solution to the many problems we find in commercial field archaeology. Hopefully with union backing something approaching a career structure with wages reflecting progression and experience through the profession may be achieved. Equally this would possibly also set a bench mark by which jobs are more realistically priced. Equally the worrying trend whereby firms use self employment as a cost cutting exercise (so denying hard won employment rights to temporary staff) and the refusal to pay proper overtime rates will be reversed. My biggest hope is that in such a climate we will develop a real professional integrity, gaining the respect we rightly deserve and being able to do jobs to the standards that many of us know we should be achieving. :face-approve: