New Management Course

[Unitof1]

If only I could change my past

I said nowadays to intimate that things have changed and that if you now want to become a member and you happen to live by the trowel the only example given was as an amateur but when you look at the rest of the list to get an idea of amateur at what, it has things like SMR (that will hurt HER indoors) Officers or County/District Archaeologist or?. Hang on maybe it does make sense

Keeping the thread on track whats the charging structure for this course all about, maybe they have some accounting tricks I could use

The fee is ?200.00 (plus VAT if applicable)

<Mr Hosty happy>

[hurting-back]

hmmmmmm, lots to comment on....

firstly I take your point invisible, I know that several professions require some business knowledge before one can become a 'full member', and I think something similar could and should be implemented in archaeology, but I still wonder whether it would change any thing without a shift in how archaeologists view themselves.

SClarkP; I don't think I agree with your view that archaeologists should stick to archaeology and leave others to manage things, as archaeological management is very tricky as we are not dealing with standard materials or products, but with unique sites. This means that the scope of any work done (and therefore the cost and financial risk) is tied up in a complex system where interpretations have a material impact on the level of work done. Moreover, this interpretation must be agreed between parties who represent opposing interests. It would not be sensible to introduce a non-archaeologist to this, as an archaeological background is crucial to understanding the risks of archaeological projects, whereas a business background is not necessary to understand business processes (remember the chip shop owners!!). Hence the need for archaeologists to engage with this, it may not be what everyone would prefer, but not everyone can become a research professor I'm afraid!! Also, having a non-archaeological finance director won't make much difference as it is the operational management which will determine the turnover and profitability of the company.

Unit of One; I don't think a WSI requiring that specialists verify the type and date of artefactual evidence would really count as a 'stitch up'. The reason this is done is because things often change in the world of ceramic dating (for instance) and you may find that what was accepted wisdom 5 to 10 years ago is laughable now. Specialists keep up to date with this so the rest of us do not have to. Without them we risk making assumptions without the backing of the most up to date collaborative research, which (I am sure you would agree) rather defeats the purpose. Also, I am a manager AND an archaeologist, and the list I gave you consists of things you would have to do to make that project happen, no matter how small the operation. I am not sure about this emphasis on the individual either, while I do value experienced people, the strength of archaeology as a science is cumulative and collaborative research, not the accumulated experience of a single individual. Given the diverse roles needed to truely understand an archaeological site, I believe a 'team' approach to be crucial, and do not see anything wrong with the notion that the basic unit for undertaking archaeological projects should be a team of people rather than an individual......of course correct me if I am misunderstanding your statements.

"don't panic!"

[BAJR Host]

A very informed post... I tend to agree with the whole post

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Unitof1]

quote:Without them we risk making assumptions without the backing of the most up to date collaborative research, which (I am sure you would agree) rather defeats the purpose.

I disagree. I got my truth you yours. If I have got the hole in the ground its mine for the first ten years I could even push it to seventy (wsi). Hands off go and dig your own hole/manage your own risk/team. You use your mates I will use mine. The system says that I have to be the cheapest to win a contract and the person paying wouldnt if they had a choice.

The course has this

5. Financial issues

Funding
Spend to earn
Cash flows
Monitoring results
Budgeting
Don't spoil the job for?

Not sure that there is a fast moving world of pot out there either, most of it is pretty pseudo-science. What happens if what you thought was 13th turns out to be 14th. I have been on sites where the evaluation said it was Iron Age and all we found was Anglo-Saxon. It was not the end of the world. Frankly the diggers should do the pot report. If somebody wants to disagree with them they can go and look at it in the museum. Isnt that one of the joys of all those records and keeping the stuff rather than selling it. Wouldn?t it be so awful if you tried to sell the stuff and nobody wanted it. Thankfully by putting it in a museum we can imagine that what you do is valuable. Specialist requirements in wsi is a crude way to try to stop the cowboys writing their own so called specialist reports and undercutting the charities who might be harbouring some of them and or to stop the museums or universities from having to support them.

Who owns the copyright in your wonder team or rather who decides whos not got copyright

1st digger oh its late 13th shelly
2nd digger oh no its not
audience oh these archaeologists are so clever

1. Your business starting point-I was out of work

Market intelligence- funny voice on telephone
Who are you? ? Unitof1
Where are you in the market? -pondlife
Positioning -bottom
Where do you want to go? To the funeral of the charity units and others
How are you going to achieve it? Hearts and minds.

[BAJR Host]

quote:The system says that I have to be the cheapest to win a contract and the person paying wouldn't if they had a choice.

the system does not say cheapest wins... it says the best tender wins... cheapest tender does not mean the best value... Bidding cheap is a problem... one that I and others don't subscribe to, you put in a bid that means you can do the job to the best of your ability with regard to the client. (they are after all paying for it... so would be unlikely to here about a ten year dig. - Sounds more like a funded research project)

Your concepts on copyright are (to be expected) crude and baffling in the real world, and the continued attack on charities is as ever a smokescreen ... we all know you have a thing about pensions and charities .. we know... so continually repeating it is unnecessary.

A digger of course could do the pot report, but then they would no longer be a digger, they would be acting as a recognised specialist.

A business concerns itself with an understanding of the market it lies within, and the methods of ensuring that the business grows, survives and has a future. Slagging off others is as petty as Asda having a go at tescos or visa versa... You may not agree with either, but to watch it happen is pretty sad viewing.



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

Well replied Mr hosty,me thinks some one needs to lighten up and find themselves a sense of humour if life is so grim/dire,perhaps a private detective could help him?}

[hurting-back]

" A very informed post... I tend to agree with the whole post"

Thank you sir...you are very kind!!

"I disagree. I got my truth you yours"

Ahhhhhh.....Unitof1, ever the relativist......well fair enough I suppose; you'll have to have it out with your local archaeological officer though, as they have their truth too!!!. The question then becomes: whose truth is more widely supported by the evidence?

However, we are starting to get away from the topic - my apologies if I caused a deviation!!!

"don't panic!"

[Unitof1]

Asda and Tesco are constantly pointing out that their prices are cheaper. I think that recently they have been ticked off for claiming to be the cheapest when they were not.

I don?t think that we are getting away from topic. What is archaeology and what is an archaeologists? In this thread we have approached it from what is this course all about. Who created it and who is it for. Is it a game over moral authority and practically, what bloody use is this one day course. I would say that it should be advertised for those working in the charity and student fiddlers set ups. Its a mirror, one day comforter, of their world. The directors in the privately owned might look at it for getting more info on getting grant/partnership money although they would probably rather it specifically aimed at that and wonder if that info can be buried in the rest of the woffle. Would you send of some off your middle management and worry that they might go off and set up on their own (no).

I work predominantly on my own. I have long periods when I (family) am running on credit. This years is getting tight. I rely on getting almost every job I go for, analysis why I did not get it and when I do get it I stare at the cost for identifying the very pot that I have retrieved from the field, washed and then sent off to the appropriate specialist and can wonder why I am paying someone else and at what point is my expertise adequate after all I have been working this area eight years now. Now in the example of the digger on a set wage how much could they be paid if they were expected to identify the pot to an adequate report level as they went along. At the moment there is no reason for them to give a monkies. That they do have an interest is all to their credit.

Heres a potential course question

I recently had a new experience where a government contractor invited three of us apparently out of the yellow pages to a field to discuss a forty metre trench evaluation, told us to go away and get a tender in by five that Friday to start the job by Tuesday. It turned out that one of us had just done a watching brief for the client. Whats going on and what do you do? You might like to start from this point of view.

the system does not say cheapest wins... it says the best tender wins... cheapest tender does not mean the best value... Bidding cheap is a problem

(plus VAT if applicable)

[BAJR Host]

quote:I recently had a new experience where a government contractor invited three of us apparently out of the yellow pages to a field to discuss a forty metre trench evaluation, told us to go away and get a tender in by five that Friday to start the job by Tuesday. It turned out that one of us had just done a watching brief for the client. Whats going on and what do you do? You might like to start from this point of view

Good point.. and one I know only too well. Simple ... if you think you are just there to make up numbers... don't tender... put your efforts into jobs you have a chance of winning. You don't have to tender...

quote:what bloody use is this one day course

best to ask them if you are unsure, rather than just damning it...

quote:I work predominantly on my own. I have long periods when I (family) am running on credit.

I also work predominantly on my own... but like a good business I ensure I have more than one income stream, am able to choose jobs, provide services that are specialist - and outsource when I don't have the skill, promote my business in a targeted form, evolve the business to compete in the market without having to cut my standards. I can even afford to do 'charity work' where I don't require payment, but get to provide service in kind to community groups. Basically, I run like a business, I evolve, I maintain standards and I provide a service.... times are hard... no denying that, but diversification has allowed me to remain stable...

quote:wonder why I am paying someone else and at what point is my expertise adequate

Again, simple... if you really can produce an adequate report on the assemblage, then go ahead and do it... if you can show you are able to produce it, it seems daft that you are sending it out to someone else... simple business model is

Time it would take you to do it (x your hourly rate) against time for someone else to do it (their costing)

As you often talk about digger retained copyright... do you exercise this on your sites? Do you employ people? You should be more than able to compete agaist larger Units, just as they will be better able to compete agaist you on large projects.

Maybe you need to go on a course

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Unitof1]

not this ifa course

My moral dilemma is that I am cheaper by miles ? Should I charge more or even as much as the others so that it would make it somehow fair...... get out of that without moving...

hosty your subsidy from some other income source sounds vmc but why question it, your model sounds fantastic, ?pension included.... your diggers must be living five star?..good for you- I cant afford diggers, all mine have to be partners who hold on to their copyright and it all gets so complicated... nobody understands whats going on


Congrats on the two income streams you lucky devil archaeology- mines ice cold freshly squeezed lemonade- see you at Glastonbury for the mud folks-the jet stream is still down around Spain

You interested in going on this course, are you recommending it, wish that it had been around in your day, nudge nudge, do you, want to see a picture of your..


Wrong answer

I think what went on at this ppg invoked tender process is that the government sado had to get three quotes (based on some pension grabbers wet dream of the eu tendering/council process but already had a preferred archaeologist (the same archaeological consultant who had reminded them that they needed three quotes for best gov. practise).

quote:

if you think you are just there to make up numbers... don't tender..

I should have worked the situation out(anything to do with council, uni, enviro agency etc...gov -when I picked up the phone asked to be paid expenses to quote (this is a lesson to all you budding archaeologist that the ifa should back up) (expenses =holiday in Barbados whats the recomended ifa rate?).
Then just to make it interesting (sorry preferred archaeologist) I should have bid beyond cheap, to get my foot on the plot, around a model where I did ?all- the digging- because there is still a simple gamble that there is nothing there). In an evaluation where, with anybody worth their salt (that?s a very old Roman saying), all the gamble is obviously exposed when/after the trenches are opened up (so why dig anymore)- I suspect that the others still went with a second team. I should have structured an un-digging one-day rate (me) until the trenches were open. If you trusted the digger driver (3oo mil top soil strip) (you will love this) you can turn up the next day and peep over the side and start the waffle (especially if turns out that the top soil was 400mil deep) and if you?re my dream person you are the digger driver.


Yes I have copyright in spades, It worth billio until it matters (don?t tell the clients or those idiots in the town hall)??.

By the way, I did not win the contract and as I understand it from my spies there was nothing there but the client who is my real enemy-thinks that they will get away with other areas of the site-we will see

an adequate report on the assemblage

your right sod them and their family