Government vote on higher education fees

[BAJR]

This is what I was thinking as well... you put people in debt... give them something to worry them for the next 20 odd years, then default... ? Where is the sense in that?

Its a lose lose situation.

[Dirty Boy]

Sigh. I have a loan of just over 20 grand. Hooray. Having a loan is not a problem. It's fake money.

It's about 20 quid a month to pay off. Obviously being an archaeologist this will never be paid, and I'm more intrigued to see how high it'll go before I hit 50 and it's cancelled. I've lived with this debt for 6 years now, and its never caused me a days problem. The amount you pay off is 9% over a certain amount and its always affordable. You're never going to starve or lose your home over this "loan". The most I suffer is mild irritation over losing the money for a few beers and a pack of cigars every month. Whoopee. Behold my hardship!

It's interesting to see that the NUS' alternative is a graduate tax. Which would essentially involve you paying, probably over 20 quid a month over a certain earnings limit while you work. A student loan is a poorly disguised tax. I will put my neck out here and agree with the coalition in that "a loan" is better as you know the money is going to the Uni you are attending, and its much harder to vary the terms. A graduate tax would involve money going to government which would end up in a big pot probably paying out for nuclear missles or wars that few want. Look at road tax!

What is concerning is the AMOUNT. And the word LOAN. BOTH IN CAPITAL LETTERS. Everyone hears ?9000 and loan and immediately start panicking. And I can fully understand why. But after 6 years owing gigantic debts, it's honestly never caused me any issues and I have no problem paying for an education for which I feel priveleged to have had. Not everything in life is given out free, nor should be.

On another note, can people please stop the "student scum" vs "facist pigs" commentary? It's becoming very tiresome. It's supposed to be an archaeology forum for God's sake, not a bloody soapbox for people who didn't attend and just want to air their political vews. If you actually attended the rally and have first hand experience, by all means say so. If on the other hand you're filtering small snippets of news footage or internet sites through your political predilications, then for God's sake SHUT UP!

[Madweasels]

Thanks Oxbeast - I will take on board and pass on your comments. It comes down, of course, to the need for her to do well at A level and HE level to get that well paid job, something she has been doing all her school-life. A case of getting out what you put in, I suppose.

[BAJR]

Fair points there Dirty..

To return to the Loan and how exactly it does pay for itself.. if most people are going to default... then what's the point? are there any stats? That said, yes it would be good to have an affordable pay to learn... what does concern is that you hit that threshold and find yourself worse off.. so why bother.. Same with Tax really.. when you start earning over ?37,400 it jumps to 40% meaning that unless you are earning seriously over that, its a bit pointless... plus the NIC etc.

( I know I know who is going to do that in archaeology)

Point being is it is another cost to life. and one that you wonder.. why did I bother, given that I am now a field archaeologist and what I learned in Uni about Byzantine trade routes in the 5th century does not help me on a watching brief.

20 quid to Student loan, 20 quid to IfA Subs, 5 quid to union sub, rent, petrol, heating, water, etc..etc.. the campsite accommodation... on it goes!

[Dirty Boy]

For being a field archaeologist - I'd say it's a bit pointless. But then surely the debate jumps to if you need a degree at all to be a field archaeologist......

[Dinosaur]

Think that got talked out back in the summer? - my recollection was it ended up as 'no' but I'm sure others at the opposite end of the arguement will recall it as 'yes' - although there are plenty of unit managers and down out there who don't have one (the MSC generation)....a third of my current crew don't and I can't say that I've ever had any noticeable benefit from mine (apart from learning to really drink and a healthy cyniscism towards 'academics'...) and yesterday's discussion in the cabin was universally along similar lines.

BAJR - the upshot of what you're saying is that if people don't join IFA they can afford their student loan?...QED :face-approve::face-stir: :face-stir:

[BAJR]

Like the lottery... by not buying a ticket for the last ten years.. at 52 quid per year I have won ?520 QED.. so I like the logic...

You would not believe how much I have saved since I left..

[kevin wooldridge]

At a rough estimate a debt of ?20,000 when you are in your 20s will if not paid off, increase to a debt of ?130,000+ at the age of 50. But that' only the tip of the iceberg. Its more likely aafter 2012 that students who go onto take a Masters will be leaving with debts of ?50,000 which adds up to a staggering ?330,000 debt at the age of 50.
I cant imagine the government will write that amount off until they have extracted your teeth, a kidney and a fair poundage of flesh....

This government's rhetoric about not burdening future generations with our debts seems to lose all logic when applied to student loans (which instantly makes me think there is more to this 'offer' than they are currently telling us about).... Maybe a double whammy about inheritance tax for example. You won't inherit the proceeds of mummy and daddy's house or grannie's trust fund until you clear up the small matter of the student loan. I think New Zealand for example has a system where your state pension is affected if you default on a student loan....A graduate tax is in that sense a fairer system than interest variable or conditioned loans...

Of course 'free' university education would be even better and it could be achieved by the simple process of reducing defence spending by 33% and diverting the ?15bn saving to double the current tertiary education budget. Infact my complaint against the current student protest is that they are unfocused. I would try and sell their case on the slogan 'Less guns, less bombs, free education for everyone'...

[gwyl]

It's about 20 quid a month to pay off. Obviously being an archaeologist this will never be paid, and I'm more intrigued to see how high it'll go before I hit 50 and it's cancelled...after 6 years owing gigantic debts, it's honestly never caused me any issues and I have no problem paying for an education for which I feel priveleged to have had. Not everything in life is given out free, nor should be.

There is an inherent contradiction here DirtyBoy 'nothing is free' but you're expecting to get away with paying ?7K-odd of ?20K

And as pointed out elsewhere, then when you suddenly come into some money - however small or large the amount you will get hit with the outstanding sum

And furthermore, who's to say that with the extending of the working life that the 50 years of age cut-off point won't also be extended

A life and a death in poverty, given that as you age the sum, as you acknowledge, will increase. Who's to say that your family won't be lumbered with your unpaid debts? To be honest, that is only right in the context of the loan and repayment process; expecting to have it written off might actually be seen by some - clearly, more prejudiced than me - as a massive piss-take as there is, apparently, no relationship with the taking out of a loan and the course you studied and any intention of paying off the loan; historically the grant implied that you received assistance from the state in carrying out studies in order to subsequently contribute to society by paying higher tax or by working in an area which while not well-rewarded contributed to the overall well-being of the country. this relationship between degree and support to undertake the degree has been erased.

This is also the reason why one must voice political views. This is a political issue - and one is taking a political position in writing here as much as by not writing

[Kel]

Beware that the age-related cut-off point for loan repayments is different depending on when you started higher education and won't apply to those starting degrees after 2005. According to Moneysavingexpert.com http://http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/...repay#when :

* Start 1990-1997 if under 40 - Loan wiped 25 years after the start date or when you reach 50, whichever is soonest.
* Start 1990-1997 if 40 or over - Loan wiped when you reach 60
* Start 1998-2005 - Loan wiped when you reach 65
* Start 2006-2010 (excl Scotland) - Loan wiped 25 years from the first April after graduation (when you were first due to repay)
* Start 2006-2010 (Scotland only) - Loan wiped 35 years from the first April after graduation (when you were first due to repay)

...so any of my loan still outstanding will be wiped when I'm 73. I assume the government will be pleased to take repayments out of what will laughingly be termed my "pension" up to that point.

Interestingly (no pun intended), advice from this site is that you shouldn't pay off student loans early.