The Plight of UK Archaeology 2009

[BAJR Host]

The accommodation is for people who are working from the company as normal (therefore work away from your normal place of work, accommodation can be provided) For a speciic project where you are working only on that project, then no accommodation can be provided...

There is a need for (and I would like BAJR Fed to be involved) is to sort out clear guidelines and also a negotiated assessment for pay and conditions

Like I said before.. it is complicated... very complicated, in fact so complicated I was baffled.. and even though the tax office tried to explain it to me, it still sounded like they were trying to convince me that black was white.

However, it now does make a sort of sense... The IfA have said to me that they wish to make a joint guideline for everyone, including their Ros and others that use BAJR.. though in the main, the concept is, if in doubt, contact the tax office.

basically, if you normall work for a company and end up on projects far away, then you can get accomodation and subs... if you come in just to work on that project for that company, then you can't.



?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake

[Oxbeast]

I can also see both sides of the situation here...
However, in response to Bob

quote:I was concerned that there MAY have been a change to the accepted T&C of similar jobs offered by these units in similar situations, and that IF that were the case then those changes (ie not offering subs or accommodation where they would have been offered 6 months ago) would be a serious impact on 'real' income.

Yes, I think that there are changes to accepted T&C. Perhaps a year ago these jobs would have been run as away jobs, that is, away from the main base of these companies. There would probably have been a mixture of home based staff and away based staff, who would all have got subs and accommodation and been living away from home on either a 5 night or 7 night basis.

These jobs can only really be set up in this way because the companies concerned know that there are large numbers of archaeologists based locally. You couldn't do this in north Cumbria or Cornwall, you just wouldn't get staff.

However, this is a recession, and terms and conditions are being cut elsewhere, others have pointed out that this is standards for other construction subcontractors, though they are generally paid substantially more than excavators.

This is great for locally based staff three months (ish) work, there's also the chance of overtime. The only people I feel sorry for are those who were sufficiently committed to move to the home bases of these companies (overpriced towns with crap transport links), were laid off and now have to move to another region to work for the company. that's just the way the cookie crumbles, i suppose...

[1man1desk]

Posted by Gagumph:

quote:1 man 1 desk said

"It might be worth mentioning in this context that I believe that the contract was not won by the cheapest tenderer, and that quality issues were the factor leading to the acceptance of a more expensive bid."

a) I have heard otherwise

b) Bearing in mind that the adverts put out by company B are for also for PO'S and Supervisors (people intended to run the sites) how can the job have been awarded on quality when they dont know who they are going to get to do it?

Point a) - maybe so, but I have reason to believe it is true.

Point b) - there are quite a lot of other valid quality criteria. For instance, Unit A (the cheapest) may not be able to provide satisfactory evidence that they are in a position to complete the work to the standard required within the time specified, whereas Unit B (more costly) may be able to provide that evidence.

However, my initial comment relates to an initial appointment to carry out watching briefs, not to the main works. Having said that, I believe the contractor appointed for the WB forms part of the consortium appointed to do the main works.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[gorilla]

Is it my really bad maths or do the pays offered not equate, even though they are collaborating on this one?

One company offers assistant rate at ?295 pw (the lowest pay which equates to ?15340 pa) while the other pays ?14895 pa (which is equivalent to ?285 pw). Ten quid a week ain't much, but it could cause a division amongst the ranks (particularly if they are working on the same site or same field)

[kevin wooldridge]

I think David pointed out previously that the pay for one unit is [u]from</u> a minimum amount and the other unit is offering within a range, so no doubt come the night they will get their act together.

I hope that BAJR gets a few more adverts soon (or maybe David could just make some up). The introspection regarding this one is beginning to grate.....



With peace and consolation hath dismist, And calm of mind all passion spent...

[BAJR Host]

Certainly would like to see more adverts... for everyones sake, and for my own... my tummy rumbles and we are (like so many) finding it hard to make ends meet. But BAJR will survive.. and I hope with the BAJR Federation, change again, into a new direction. I truely believe this isa time to change, rather than return to the way we was.

SO, I hope, the coming of spring will see what I predict.. a stabilisation... and a realisation of where we (as archaeologists)sit in the grater scheme ... time to reaccess and restructure.

ps... ANyone wanting to advertise... don't hold back!

?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake

[YellowPete]

I would certainly like to add a note to a comment earlier in the thread of culling to the best.

This is going to quickly bring on a sniping mentality, where sites turn into seething nests of groups and gangs hurling insults and bullying novices out the door.

If you haven't got any experience yet, all you can do is listen and learn and if this were the setting of the stage, then I would mention that for fresh starters you should be wary of what you take on board.

Easily said, but nigh on impossible to undertake, as when the chips are down things are totally unknown.

As for feeling pity and sorry for those who take the job, personally I think they will, be at least lending a helping hand to those who face a greater cleave of wage, so this is to be as much applauded as scorned.

CEO's have a lot to loose, in terms of staffing and as for bloated wages; this has already been noted to be an issue at all levels across even local government, but I fear for now more than earnt.


No shouting 'scab' hopefully.


Graduates still need to be trained otherwise no one will be going to university and paying other archaeologists, who will descend on the field with a vengeance.

As for the amateur and part time legacy, well that?s a matter of self-esteem (bloated or no, concerning what our jobs are worth, against what we do).

With this we must return to the topic of A Brave New World, well lets face it, we'll jovially discuss this, but I still sense a little pomp, considering that families and homes are in the firing line.

No ifs or buts, could we look them in the face and still pomp with gratification?

I'm not being idealistic here but the issue remains, that there are those still in a position to help and those who are left to sit and watch, because that is all they / we can do.

We are angry and infuriated at the impotence to change this, but until more projects come underway then we really must remember that it is easier to go round a friends and share a stew, or risotto for the price of a chip in the pot, as opposed to carrying the pot on your tod for many more mouths (principally looking to you without understanding why).


Say what you want and will, as we each must, but ultimately can we get so ferocious, if this was a close friends or our own?


To remain or retain our professionalism though we must also remember that every quarter given is offered from a limited position.

Never given freely, but offered and earnt, to keep what will maintain a semblance of professionalism to this melee.

But never forget this is still just business, but with a human and hardened face.

Not the be all, or end of all for things that are come or gone.



txt is
Mike

[Indyannajones]

Ok, I guess there seems to be no real resolve to give the archaeological profession - the majority who are employed or have been employed by commercial units a good name and prospects, commercial units really need to start sorting this out, construction industry is a high earner...

1. So what do people think about the affect, if any, the "Time Team" has on the general non-digging public? (reference to my original post)

2. What impression does "Time Team" give of archaeology in the UK and the affect this may have on non-archaeological employers who revue the cv of a potential ex-archaeological employee?

[kevin wooldridge]

Are IndyAnna and Mike aka Yellow Pete by any chance related?



With peace and consolation hath dismist, And calm of mind all passion spent...

[RedEarth]

quote:Originally posted by YellowPete


I would certainly like to add a note to a comment earlier in the thread of culling to the best.

This is going to quickly bring on a sniping mentality, where sites turn into seething nests of groups and gangs hurling insults and bullying novices out the door.

If that were to happen I think we'd be up to our eyeballs in harrasment claims and wrongful dismissals so I hope it won't. If it did, then perhaps some of those doing the sniping and insulting would be shown the door and good riddance.

As for looking someone in the face and still being able to 'pomp with gratification', if someone opens a window afterwards I'm not bothered.

Re Indyannajones' comment - I don't think even Time Team can save us now (or that their contribution is particularly relevant given the previous mentions concerning the disparity in pay between the various people involved in it...)