Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2004
29th December 2004, 04:41 PM
BAJR, I'm not opposed to a hotline, I'm concerned about its (your) legal position and exactly how it works (and above all of course the fact that something like it is considered necessary). It was the website idea that particularly worried me.
Is every county council/curator etc receptive to the idea? Presumably the idea only works if the curator is happy to rush off to investigate every (anonymous) complaint. Perhaps they should be administering contracts better (at all?) in the first place - after all, the root of the problem is surely that there are no checks on work done, and reliance is placed on a "professional" approach in a world where the concept of professionalism has been severely undermined. I have attempted to raise the question of the nature of professionalism on other threads.
There is also the possibility, on some occassions, that the complainant may actually be wrong! And professionalism works both ways - yes, you run a risk of losing your job etc. if you stand up for you believe in. If everybody did it.......
But having said all that, your hotline must be worth a go.
I agree that unionisation is not the way forward. The IFA is the way to go, but it canonly work if peple stop maoning and being totally negative about it and MAKE it work. Hotline reports should be copies to the IFA as well as the curator - they can't do anything if they don't have the information. But remeber that they can do little on unsubstantiated and anonymous complaints.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2004
30th December 2004, 12:13 AM
Dear Invisible, the IFA, to be blunt, don`t and have not done what they say on the tin. Had they played a pro-active role in policing standards in PPG 16 land, commercial field archaeology would not have been allowed to become the threat to the heritage that it has. You raise some good points sir but, after years of trying, the IFA seems to be deaf.Particularly when it is the people who do this for a living are the ones doing the "moaning". Sir, if you can "make the IFA work"-I promise endless cream eggs.BAJR has suggested a route that will make them listen, a good start.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2004
30th December 2004, 01:43 AM
thanks Troll....
Invisible... I have desparately wanted teh IFA to work... and in many ways it does... it is the recognised polital entiry of archaeology... it produces policies and guidence, codes and standards... all very good. It falls down in one respect... actually making the contractor follow standards... and I for one think that minimum standards are not something to aim for but to be surpassed (I was recently a director of a contracting company and know first hand that standards can surpass min requirements but still be competitive in the marketplace).
I am offering a way for complaints to be made to BAJR.... I will verify the complainant before progressing... a pain for me but there you go... I will then let both teh IFA and the curator or HSE officer know of the complaint... it is now up to them to check it is fine... the HSE would not hesitate.. and I know that if BAJR phoned me up and told me that the contractor working in my county was ripping up saxon graves I would be straight down there! but then I know that I would not phone up unless there was a real case of concern.
Perhaps the IFA will follow this idea and take it on... great... I could get back to providing job adverts, courses, information, calendar dates, guides, education help, directories of local history centres etc etc that I provide for free
Question is not why am I doing something that the IFA should be doing... more why are the IFA not providing this service already.. ?
BAJR
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2004
30th December 2004, 05:41 PM
OK guys, you've convinced me. The hotline has my full support! Now, how to start earning those cream eggs....
I still reckon there is a problem with active policing - no other professional body, as far as I am aware, goes round checking on its members work, they all react to complaints. On an individual contract I can't think of anyone suitable to keep an eye on it other than the curator. So we need more curators and they should be paid more...
I'm not entirely joking there.
For the record, some professional bodies are more, shall we say, effective than others. The RIBA (the architect's one) for example is as much use as a chocolate mattock and held in about as much esteem as the IFA.
Ah well, one day we'll be chatting about actual archaeology on here...... but then I believe Spurs will win the Premiership before long.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2004
30th December 2004, 06:46 PM
keen point Mr invisible-curators... Have to be a cunning lot these people.Please the council and the developers.It has to be said that either some curators are hideously under-resourced or, they are on occasion, blind. Some report standards would read better if penned in black crayon. Standards in the field is one issue, a new look at how commercialism affects the finite resource en masse- another.I agree, curators should do exactly that, curate. Would be nice now and then to see one that asks the developer to "compromise".Mr host asks a serious question-why is the IFA not providing a "hotline/website" service? You would imagine an organisation jumping up and down and getting stuck in when told the very people they recommend are muppets would`nt you? It has been said that on occasion, MIFA can stand for missing intrinsic field ability.Just now and then, people manage to escape commercial cac and do some nice archaeology.Be nice to see some piccies from you lot who do!I hear people dig in far-flung places...far away from the muppetry...there`s no place like home..there`s no...
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2004
7th January 2005, 12:13 PM
So, after nearly 250 people have viewed this topic, less than a handful could be bothered to contribute.Come on-I must have upset someone at least?Put the rizla down and get involved!Reminds me of an opportunity a year or so ago when Prospect and IFA held a conference in Birmingham. What a platform for change methought! But oh no- guess how many of you turned up? Twenty bloody four. The suits had a field day-IFA did it`s famous" we will carry out a ten year research-then approach the problem" trick and, Prospect pretended to be a real, grown up union.The longer you lot stick your head in the sand and accept the status quo, the more bull**** they get away with.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2004
7th January 2005, 06:04 PM
looks like its just you me and invisible then!!
However... good news is that
a) Hotline goes live on Monday.
b) New payscales (BAJR approved) are implemented on April 1st
Not massive rises.. (a 2.95% rise) but is still means an extra 7-10 pounds a week plus there will be a check on Holiday pay.. and rights.
I am hoping that the Hotline will work as a preventative eventually... where it is less hassle to just do the job properly and safely - I have seen the IFA disciplinary procedure document and it is er.... simple (in the same way that nuclear physics is simple)
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...linary.pdf
So anyway... lets hope the hotline works.... no crap whinging and jsut honest and fear free whistle blowing. Why oh why am I doing this though... surely the IFA could have done this years... nay decades ago.
ps... negotiotations between Prospect and BAJR have collapsed without them once bothering to meet. Looks like BAJR payscales will have to do as the standard then!!
[xx(]
BAJR
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2004
7th January 2005, 09:00 PM
good for you sir! Once again-BAJR comes through! Am just about to have a look at IFA disciplinary thingy-should make for an interesting peruse...Not remotely surprised at Prospect-unions are about making money out of the very people they profess to represent.Come back Mr Scargill! In a similar vein, the IFA are all about representing themselves and asking the rest of us to pay them a salary.No real wonder that the two are bedfellows....Good luck Mr host, giz shout if I can do anything........
