DIGGER, voice for good or SWP polemic?

[drpeterwardle]

I think I agree with Troll (Is this the first time?). I am a regular reader of the Sun and the Mail (before anybody outs me) it does not mean that I agree with the editorial or the spin just that I want to know what is being said.

My least favourite newspaper - lib dem news, apart from the cartoons.

Peter

[Arthus]

[quote]Originally posted by Beer Beast

The editor of the digger is a Marxist/Trotskyite member of the SWP and as such represents a tiny section of the archarchaeological comunity.

But this is not true, lefties are quite a big section of the archaeological community.

I am continually meeting SWP and ex SWP archaeologists. Generally speaking I have found archaeologists to be more left wing than the previous job I worked in for 20 years. They are for example on the whole much less racist and more anti-war than many groups of workers

I believe that if you did a survey of archaeologists you would find, compared to other groups of workers a higher percentage of people who broadly identified themselves as left wing.

I base my views on my contact with archaeologists in the UK, India and Australia.

But I suppose Beer Beast may dismiss Australia, since he might claim it as having been already corrupted having produced a dangerous Marxist like Gordon Childe (and India too may not suit Beer Beast since so many of its best archaeologist and historians are Marxists).

But even more telling, if you looked at such issues as the invasion of Iraq, abortion, global warming, refugees and pensions, you will find the majority of archaeologists (even the people who clam no interest in politics) holding left of centre views.

And it is obvious why. Archaeologists are people who tend to be interested, not just in human history, but also in what lessons might be gained from the past (how humans coped with global warming or cooling perhaps!).

[Perhaps its also to do with geting an education and then living in poverty...revolutionaries and archaeologist both tend to do that]

But archaeologist tend also to take an interest in the world as it is now and try to find out what is going on.
Trying to scrape away the lies from the truth.

And it is also obvious why Marxist theory continues to be an important influence in archaeology. After all the Historical Materialist approach to human prehistory suggests that changes in the ?mode of production? produce changes in wider society, for example changing from nomadic hunting and gathering to settled farming, produces a less egalitarian and more hierarchical society.

The fact that this obviously does happen (with all the ?agency? you like contained in this generalisation) would surely suggest that Marxist theory is a traditional and valid tool.

A tool and a way of thinking that has become so standard within archaeology that many do not fully recognise its Marxist origins.

So for these reasons if The editor of the digger is indeed a dangerous red then it is obvious he is in fact quite repressentative of many diggers.




Arthus

[sniper]

have to agree with troll here and others who have said that opinion is opinion and censorship is ridiculous. We are all intelligent people and should be allowed to see things in their original context and form our own opinions about them. I remember not so long ago saying to a fellow poster that I was sorry they were not being allowed to express their own opinions on here by external forces, and now it seems someone is trying to impose that on others...

++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++

[troll]

Greetings Doctor Pete-trust you`re well. Is it not the case that the Lib Dems are indeed the cartoon?
Just what is a political extremist anyway? Someone with an opinion?
Just how (and why) would one replace the editor of their own publication?
I am dyin to meet that "somebody" who represents a more mainstream opinion!
ps The Whitheouse (Bush family business) is only white because the British burnt it.
On a serious note though-Beery-write yer own sir! If I had five minutes to myself, I would love to do something positive like the editor of the Digger.Sadly, after a days diggin, my arse does`nt move and I become one of those people who choose silence. Seriously-write a newsletter

[kevin wooldridge]

quote:Originally posted by Beer Beast

There are many comments to respond to:

1: troll, if I had the time I would write my own site/forum, like yourself after a long day I wish I had the energy.

...But with the potential resources of Oxford Archaeology behind you, isn't it possible that they could be encouraged to sponsor an alternative publication to the Digger?

I am thinking that it could easily remind some of us oldies of those magazine battles of our youth;

NME v Melody Maker
Beano v Dandy
Private Eye v Now!!
Jackie v Fab208
Penthouse v The War Cry

I also think that archaeological employers have proven they are well able to look after their own interests, well demonstrated by the hoo-hah on BAJR when Dave was last on holiday. Surely a little steam-venting in the Digger is a small price to pay for what is otherwise a fairly easy life...

I am in no position to speak for the 'majority' of archaeological practioners so can't comment on whether they are 'shocked and appalled' or merely 'bored' (my italics) at the way that BAJR-ites occasionally 'frighten the horses'. I think though if I worked for Oxford Archaeology I might be a tad annoyed at being described as so apathetic. I don't recall that this was the case amongst the staff I met when I worked there.

Personally I do think it would be a shame if every archaeologist was a 'Stepford' clone of a design fashioned in the backroom of Janus House, or Mortimer Wheeler House or Portway House or Fortress House.
Maybe that could be the primary subject for debate in the first issue of 'Oxford Digger' magazine.

[drpeterwardle]

My understanding of what you said was rather different. You say

"I see those BAJR highlighted statements comments were made by named on-line members of those bodies - what would the un-named mass membership say off-line? that was my comment! Hosty, you do yourself no favours. Debate honourably or not at all!!"

My understanding is that you said:

?Maybe the IFA,CBA and Britarch have it right when they say, (off-list)that bajr is populated by anarchist idiots! Please prove that isn't so. Hosty, bollocks is bollocks and your position on this is full of it!!!!.

Could you clarify if you have any evidence that that either statement is correct.

Peter

[BAJR Host]

At the risk of being to nice.

Perhaps we should remember that BAJR is run as well as my job as a Curator and a freelance contractor (in both archaeology and design) - so it can be done... if you want to build something, build it... energy can be found.

I have produced statements from the IFA and the CBA showing (as you might say) the official stance. So far I have seen nothing to refute this stance.... the offer is there... please come and debate... tell me where it is felt I go wrong... and then I can change or not... mumbles and vague suggestions about being full of anarchist idiots is not constructive or useful.

Perhaps I could offer you a poll. choose a question and some answers and I will make it public. Democracy.

I do like Beer, a point I was making to a friend of yours over in Bristol recently.... debate however is open, and so far I have seen nothing open about the people in the CBA and IFA who supposedly see BAJR as a threat to world stability. Who exactly made these statements about BAJR, or are these people as 'cowardly' (your words) as the letter writer you complained about in the first place

meanwhile I hope you have asked all collegues and friends to sign the petition for the release of the German Archaeologist.




Another day another WSI?

[1man1desk]

quoteo far I have seen nothing open about the people in the CBA and IFA who supposedly see BAJR as a threat to world stability

Well, I am not an official of either IFA or CBA, but (as you might have noticed) an enthusiastic supporter of the IFA. I am also an enthusiastic supporter of BAJR, and I don't see any contradiction in that.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[BAJR Host]

And as a supporter of BAJR I am also an ethusiastic supporter of the IFA and the CBA - does this mean I have a split personality

Another day another WSI?

[troll]

Greetins Beery-
"transparency and accountability"? Don`t forget sir-this is England.Those are buzz words banded about by communications parasites, they don`t actually mean anything anymore!