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6th December 2005, 11:25 AM
This thread demonstrates whats great and good about BAJR. I dont want to throw you a curve ball but I would be genuinely interested in your views on a situation I have on my patch.
We have a 3.5 acre field which is known to contain an Anglo Saxon cemetary. The burials were first encountered in the 19th century. In the last five years the site has been a mecca for detectorists, in the last 6 months it has produced 120 reported finds through the PAS scheme, all anglo saxon, many of them treasure items. Now it seems to me that the site should be protected. EH are will not schedule it, the farmer wants to continue cultivating it and the MD's are delighted to keep on going back, they visit the site 4 times a week at the moment. My point is the detectorists are not destroying the site, the system is; but should detectorists take advantage of that? What should I do as a curator?
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6th December 2005, 12:09 PM
Difficult problem Alfie, but you feel you're going to lose the site anyway, you could try using the same ineffective system to your advantage. Have you got a decent local archaeological society in your area? We have a site here that keeps getting attacked by nighthawks. After discussion with the landowner, and with our support, the society have put in a grant application to EH, to get the funds for a project to dig the site once and for all. It's not a very satisfactory resolution, and the site will obviously end up being largley destroyed, but at least the evidence will be recovered, recorded and published by archaeologists.
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6th December 2005, 12:22 PM
It is just this sort of site that detectorists and archaeolgoists should be working together on... the detectorists keep detecting... (the site is under threat from farming) and the archaeolgoists (whether county mounties like us or local socs) should cooperate with find location system, support numbers, even trial trenching based on results... everyone happy. Everyone does what they are good at... that which would be lost is recorded.
I am piloting a scheme next year (the foolish Seven Sites in Seven Days) where local groups, detectorists and contracting archaeolgists get together 7 groups, seven sites (a building, landscape survey, detecting, re-enactment, townscape survey, trial trenching and a back garden test pitting with detecting) ... the total cost... around 30-45k. the results..... NEW data, increased awareness of heritage, community involvement, connection between archaeolgists and public, site info saved from the gradual wearing away of modern agricultural methods.... kept small to limit post ex budgets.. but targeted on sites such as the one you mention.
Done it before on other sites with MDs. it works... evryone wins.... give it a go.
Money will come from HLF at only around 5k per group. bargain!
Another day another WSI?
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6th December 2005, 01:06 PM
The short answer is that the site has been discovered, finds to date having proven what it is.. it should now be protected.
However, you need to look at the way it is to protected...whats the point in stopping detecting if the site is still under cultivation...would it not be best to work with the detectorists in 'rescuing' any artefacts that are being disturbed by the ploughing etc...
My first question is, has anyone yet tried talkling to the detectorists directly?
I dont mean in a confrontational or moralistic way (not suggesting that you would), but could you not try appealing to them by highlighting the fact that they have done a great job in helping to prove the existance of this important site, their efforts in recording the finds have been commendable, but could they possibly help in now protecting the site....
From a personal point of view I would be not only proud that I not only had a hand in discovering the site and in then conserving it, but alo and this is the important bit, that my part in its story was recognised as such.
I do think that there is an excellent opportunity here to plan a course of action for this site, to not only to help conserve what is there but to also provide a model of cooperation.... make this a good experience, word will get round and you will have sown an acorn..
Just a thought..
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6th December 2005, 01:41 PM
If the site is being destroyed by ploughing and EH is unwilling to schedule (a recurrant theme!)then shouldn't the detectorists ( the ones recording finds with PAS) be encouraged to salvage the stuff in the plough-soil before it goes to individuals who don't want to record the finds?
It sounds like a bad situation all round, and one probably being replicated throughout the UK. For me the ideal situation would be preservation in-situ, scheduling and no detecting (and proper enforcement). Next best should be archaeological excavation in conjunction with a programme of detection (as David suggests). Worst of all would be exclusion of responsible detectorist while irresponsible ones do what they do.
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6th December 2005, 01:55 PM
Quote:quote:Originally posted by mercenary
If the site is being destroyed by ploughing and EH is unwilling to schedule (a recurrant theme!)then shouldn't the detectorists ( the ones recording finds with PAS) be encouraged to salvage the stuff in the plough-soil before it goes to individuals who don't want to record the finds?
Absolutely!!
This scenario also seems to provide a very good opportunity for the PAS officer to get involved at the 'coal face' so to speak. Shouldn't part of their responsibility be to co-ordinate effective recovery action where the 'professional services' are failing or have failed. That might involve informing and encouraging local heritage enthusiasts (MDs and archaeologists) to monitor the site and/or liaise with the landowner and/or use their position to lobby potential sources of funding to enable appropriate 'rescue' recording and conservation.
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6th December 2005, 02:35 PM
Quote:quote: For me the ideal situation would be preservation in-situ, scheduling and no detecting (and proper enforcement).
OK, playing devils advocat, just supposing the site was remote etc, how would you police and enforce it?
Quote:quote: Worst of all would be exclusion of responsible detectorist while irresponsible ones do what they do.
The answer is actually within your last sentence, work with the responsible detectorist (and yes it will take a huge leap of faith and trust on both sides) and you have a ready made, nationwide and enthusiastic police force.
I reckon they will be more than prepared to maintain a watch on these sites and provide periodic site reports on them.
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6th December 2005, 07:44 PM
Quote:quote:OK, playing devils advocat, just supposing the site was remote etc, how would you police and enforce it?
Well, Seeing how other things are "enforced" in the heritage industry I really have no hope whatsoever that it would be enforced. Even on a non-remote site.
Also playing devils advocate, I think the only way would be to make detectors illegal, so anyone seen carrying one could be recognized as breaking the law. I'm not even sure that this would be enforced seeing how many other obviously illegal practices get ignored.
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6th December 2005, 08:07 PM
on the burials side of the argument, skeletons can be protected against destruction by development, so why can't they be protected against destruction by ploughing once it is known that they exist on a certain site. If the metal objects are being brought up into the ploughsoil (and after conversations with metal detectorists, I bet at least a few of the objects are being dug up from within sealed burials), imagine what it is doing to the skeletal remains...
++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++
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6th December 2005, 09:15 PM
Quote:quote:Also playing devils advocate, I think the only way would be to make detectors illegal, so anyone seen carrying one could be recognized as breaking the law. I'm not even sure that this would be enforced seeing how many other obviously illegal practices get ignored.
Quote:quote:The answer is actually within your last sentence, work with the responsible detectorist (and yes it will take a huge leap of faith and trust on both sides) and you have a ready made, nationwide and enthusiastic police force.
I reckon they will be more than prepared to maintain a watch on these sites and provide periodic site reports on them.
You could try to get metal detectors outlawed, but I think the likelyhood of that is less than slim, or alternatively we could try working together as I suggested.
Seems pretty pointless to me to keep working against each other when the solution to most problems could so easily be achieved with a little give and take on both sides.
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