Thornborough "debate"

[BAJR Host]

Fair point Pixie... and I have now looked at the statement

quote:Having countenanced the destruction of more than 200 archaeological finds at Nosterfield Quarry close to the unique Thornborough Henges, North Yorkshire County Council is now allowing the same thing to happen at the adjacent Ladybridge Farm. This is the 109 acres site from which Tarmac has applied to extract 2.2 million tonnes of sand and gravel by open-cast mining.

At the open planning meeting at Masham on 20th September, the committee decided to defer a decision on Tarmac?s quarrying application to allow the company extra time to undertake a second, more detailed archaeological evaluation. However, the chairman made clear to the public that the strategy for doing so would first be discussed and agreed openly.

Accordingly, the Friends asked for Dr Jan Harding, the Newcastle University archaeologist who had identified a Neolithic settlement on the site, to be involved. The council?s Heritage Manager, refused on the grounds that "it wouldn?t do to have private individuals commenting, because there would be no end to it." The Director of the British Council for Archaeology, who had asked to participate, was also excluded.

It is evident that, in North Yorkshire, senior officers make the decisions rather than our elected representatives!

So, in order to evaluate the extent of nationally important remains on Ladybridge Farm, a method of investigation was privately sanctioned and implemented with undue haste despite weather conditions totally inappropriate for good archaeology. The topsoil from three 100 x 50 metre trenches was mechanically stripped with quarry diggers and all subsoil features excavated by hand in atrociously wet weather. Only a fraction of the soil was subjected to the careful sieving that Dr Harding insists is necessary to identify 5,000 years old remains from the Stone Age. Unsurprisingly, few fragile remains were found in the theoretical "transitional zone" selected for examination, and English Heritage continues to maintain that the preservation of the remaining setting of the henges is of national importance.

At a monitoring meeting on site, Neil Campling, the Canadian-born County Archaeologist decided that the compaction that would be caused by mechanically backfilling the trenches with one foot of wet soil would make deep ploughing necessary to restore drainage prior to future cultivation. Accordingly, in a departure from the agreed strategy that required any finds to be preserved in situ, he authorised the complete excavation of the early prehistoric features. As a result, the buried archaeology found in the excavation trenches has been removed from its context and destroyed, thereby offering Tarmac this area on a plate.

And, hey presto, an evaluation strategy has effectively been transformed into a devaluation strategy! Is it any wonder that our county council is suspected of operating to a covert pro-quarrying agenda, spear-headed by an officer who favours "excavate and destroy" developer-funded archaeology and was recruited by the man who is now Tarmac?s consultant archaeologist?

There is plenty in there which is pretty cruel and misleading.. allegations of covert pro quarry agenda... allegations of colussion between 'Canadian' (as if that is somehow important) Neil Campling and Mike Griffiths. allegations that archaeology was deliberately destroyed.. allegations that the exersise was to cleanse the area of archaeology.

These are allegations, libel and slander... unverified rumour and comment dressed as fact.

Perhaps FOT would mind commenting on where the information came from

ie... was Neil Campling 'recruited by Mike Griffiths? and what is the point they are trying to make?

If I contacted Jan Harding and Mike Hayworth... would they agree that they were excluded from the site?


to say that the programme is

quotepear-headed by an officer who favours "excavate and destroy" developer-funded archaeology

based on???

FOT should be careful what they say... and perhaps back up allegations with facts rather than stated views (dressed as facts)

Timewatch perhaps rightly.. should distance itself from these views.. It muddies the waters and devalues the justifiable campaign to protect the Henges.

The question asked is whether Timewatch agrees with... OR disagrees with these statements. And FOT should be prepared to stand up and back up the 'press release' with actual facts.




Another day another WSI?

[BAJR Host]

I have also just asked FOT for a reply

Another day another WSI?

[deepdigger]

Still waiting I assume sir!!

deep

[BAJR Host]

curiouser and curiouser as someone said.

}

Another day another WSI?

[archae_logical]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

curiouser and curiouser as someone said.
}

Did you really expect a reply [?]

E
(not at all surprised)

[deepdigger]

Well, it would be nice if someone came clean on the whole shoddy affair, quite frankly!
We, the British public have a right to know whats going on, and not only with this site either!

deep

[historic building]

Just noticed this on the CBA news feed

http://www.nidderdaletoday.co.uk/ViewArt...ID=1338713

More on the conservation plan.

[troll]

Much wailing and gnashing of teeth no less.Good.Frankly.Members of the public have offered an opinion in public.They have clearly written it in blissful ignorance of the contrived web of pseudo-legislative garbage that continues to stall any evolution of the industry today.Apparently, members of the public would be very surprised to be told that-when offering an opinion, you can`t actually discuss detail and by the way, the opinion you offer will increase the likelehood of your being sued.Who the Authors of this statement were is not an issue for me.They wrote it as they saw it.The way they have approached the issue shows as clear as day-the strength of feeling that people bring to this campaign.In their writings-yes they express their views in a somewhat "raw" approach but for me,isn`t that the point? There are more than enough heritage workers who are in the habit of supressing the essence of their views and re-wording them to passify the great God of "slander and Libel". Folks, if we start to impose the culture of clinically sterile dialogue upon the public-we can all forget about appealing to them for their support in the future.A passionate, campaigning public must be allowed to express their views.To reduce the Thornborough campaign to mere semantic mechanics-we would be imposing our own frames of reference based upon a competative environment.Not only that, if heritage workers choose to "deconstruct to devastate" views of campaigning members of the public rather than supporting them with constructive criticism, Thornbrough loses out again.This issue seems to have become blurred.Rather than concentrating on the real issue and-raising it`s profile, the word-wars have begun.Yes-there are a number of perhaps careless and unfortunate statements in the quote.Perhaps, this is a reflection of the lack of support from us as a whole? If we are to impose the restrictions of legal-speak upon the campaigning public(BAJR AUP accepted!) then why not start helping them to write legal-speak with testicles?

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)

[BAJR Host]

Just as long as rumours are not passed off as fact... and comments about people who are doing a good job are kept relevant.

accusing Neil of being ...

an officer who favours "excavate and destroy" developer-funded archaeology and was recruited by the man who is now Tarmac?s consultant archaeologist?
is not helping the justifiable cause of preventing quarrying around the henges... and to publically say that Mike Heyworth was barred from site when he was not etc etc.

This is not tough this is just sensible. Stick to facts and don't blame the messengers. The Daily Diary was a brilliant piece of social history and showed what we have to put up with...

BAJR Host supports the campaign but deplores the misinformation

Another day another WSI?

[troll]

Agreed.Misinformation however can only be an environment cultivated in ignorance.As an industry, this will continue to return and bite us-unless we pro-actively plan for an informed voting public.The archaeologists who find themselves in the middle of the entire barrage at Thornborough will just have to put up with it.It happens to be a bit of a contraversial issue.Most people in the UK have never even met an archaeologist (some professionals would admit this too!) let alone have a grasp at varience with the bite-sized view of the spoon-fed television entertainment version, of just what it is that archaeologists do.We can`t suddenly become sensitive when assumptions are made.We laid our own bed......"raise the value of archaeology and of archaeologists in the public eye.." was a little pledge from a certain organisation that I heard years ago. That was all that I heard.If a client had levelled some of the quoted accusations at the archaeologists concerned-the usual machinery would have been put in motion.The client at Thornborough is the public too.Inform them.

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)