Diggers Time?

[Beasley]

well having been in the field for over 10 years i feel i am reasonably qualified to speak as i have found concerning jobs. I went to uni mid career to enable me, and may i say succeed,to move up the ranks when i felt the time was right. I was quite stunned how little digging experience was required by the uni, how little we were told about the world of commercial archaeology but worst of all was amazed by the lack of interest by my fellow students. i recall on the uni excavation one girl actually had 2 days off as she had 'broken a nail'! it was a very long course for me!In the 5 years since i left i have only met one person from the course on the circuit and they were leaving!

[deepdigger]

Good idea, lay off the Troll, He's my mate and a good bloke!

deep

[BAJR Host]

As a hard as nails digger myself... (oh yes) I am getting very worriedabout the present trend.... though it is not so different from 'my day'. I went to Uni as a digger and was chuckled by people talking about weeks of experience (by that time I hada couple of years).

The Unis (and I have talked to a few today) are worried about reduced numbers.... but can't afford to advertise cos they have so few applicants.... those that do come in are worried about the lack of opportunities... sounds like a circular arguement??

I will be pushing heavily the potential for BAJR to help promote an enviroment where you can study archaeology and have the prospect of a decent job at the end of it.

I am dismayed (but ever hopeful) that PROSPECT is having a joint conference about how to move forward archaeology careers...

quote:Many conferences have raised issues and identified problems, but have not managed to provide satisfactory answers. It?s time for a change.

perhaps PROSPECT should be reminded of the previous promise from April 2003 http://www.prospect.org.uk/dl/3047_98658...695a471fa6

tick the fulfilled changes!

I may as well say
1... the earth will be flat
2... diggers will get 500 quid a week
3... developers should really pay
4... er.... thats it

saying it don't make it happen!

to return to the point... diggers are as skilled and specialist as an osteologist or a surveyor... true a digger can be a different levels but being a digger is a skill - full stop.

[Digger]

Our unit has (supposedly)close ties to a Uni. Am extremely surprised about the lack of student volunteers (for digging or post-ex work). Our post-ex volunteers are retired types (and greatly appreciated for their work). It appears the only students interested in building up their experience are the mature age ones. Supposed to be having a chat to the arch students at a careers night soon. Wonder if any will turn up.....:face-topic:

[the invisible man]

A slightly confusing thread....

A drop in uni applications is a Good Thing because it will lead to higher wages.

It's a Bad Thing because we might not have enough archaeologists.

It doesn't matter anyway because most arch students have no intention of a career in archaeology.

Students aren't interested in gaining work experience. Presumably this is unpaid work? I see a connection. Further, nearly all job ads are for experienced staff. This perhaps lead back to the old debate about whose job it is exactly to train people for industry.

Mature part time volunteers, working presumably free for a commercial organisation? Another thread vilifies this practice. Frankly I would also oppose it.

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[Digger]

Bit harsh Inviz, gained my initial experience by doing volunteer work.
This led to my first paying jobs. We do a lot of community projects so we have a few retiries, widows-widowers and mature students who want to get involved. They do it because they want to get involved no one forces them. I have also had school groups of kids with 'learning difficulties'pot washing and had fantastic responses with them-and amazed teacers. Enough.

There was an academic argument once that educational institutions were there to educate individuals and not to train people to get jobs. I guess this explains the experience shortage!

[the invisible man]

Absolutely, I have also volunteered in one way or another over the last ten years, sometimes I have paid to do it, sometimes it has been no cost, sometimes I have had nominal "expenses" thrust into my grubby but grateful palm.

The examples you give are presumably not in commercial contracting outfits. I am referring to another thread where some BAJRists object to retirees and second careerists taking jobs at low (or no)wages bcause they can afford to, thus driving wages down and taking jobs away from fresh faced new grads. I am not totally convinced that this is widespread enough to cause a problem, and basically have no problem with it anyway. If people enjoy doing something, and most importantly can do it satisfactorily, then of course it will be unpaid or low paid. It's a blow for those wishing to make a living out of it, true, but there it is.

It's the extreme example of an entire post-ex sorting department (!) in a commercial organisation that I wonder about. I suppose that there is nothing wrong with a firm gaining a commercial advantage if they can get unpaid staff to carry out relatively repetitive, possibly monotonous (did I say that?[:I]) tasks if under experienced skilled supervision. Or even highly skilled work if they have the skill. Maybe I'm not that opposed after all!

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[Duchess]

quote:Originally posted by the invisible man

It's the extreme example of an entire post-ex sorting department (!) in a commercial organisation that I wonder about. I suppose that there is nothing wrong with a firm gaining a commercial advantage if they can get unpaid staff to carry out relatively repetitive, possibly monotonous (did I say that?[:I]) tasks if under experienced skilled supervision. Or even highly skilled work if they have the skill.

I know either the organisation that you are talking about or another similar situation. Some of my friends used to work there. That work was voluntary but it counted as part of their 'fieldwork' quota for their undergrad degree. I don't think you can really expect undergraduates to gain relevant experience and get paid for it? OK, they did more than their required quota (20 days) but isn't that a good thing, to gain as much experience as possible? And granted, many of them weren't ever planning to go into a career as an archaeologist but they were (are) keen and interested and most are now either doing further studies (PhDs) or working in related fields.

D

I dig dead people

[the invisible man]

Actually I don't know what the organisation is, I was referring to the unit Digger mentioned. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I wasn't referring to undergrads.

I see no problem with an industry training its own staff, at least in part, in the form of paid (graduate) trainees. This is, or used to be, commonplace in other professions - compulsory in some. A university can teach only so much in any field () but experience can only be gained on the job. It is not unreasonable to expect an industry to contribute to its own future fee-earnng assets - its people. It is entirely unresonable to expect experienced staff to drop out of the sky.

A paid trainee is in addition making a contribution to the employer, they are working, not purely passive. As they progress and gain experience and knowledge they will perform less menial tasks.

It used to be the way of the world, it's not a radical new idea! But I think we're wandering off-topic...[:I]

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[Duchess]

quote:Originally posted by the invisible man

Actually I don't know what the organisation is, I was referring to the unit Digger mentioned. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I wasn't referring to undergrads.

Soz, wasn't paying attention [:I]

I dig dead people