Bad Apple

[Steve-B]

Thank for that reply Paul, I do appreciate what you are saying and will press the point no more other than to say that as I have stated on other fora, my main concern is in the way that the PAS have publicly handled this event, I do think they have lost a lot more trust in trying to quietly sweep it under the carpet and depsite the obvious flak, they would have better served their cause by being more opn about it.

http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[garybrun]

It was a serious breach of ethics Steve and this situation highlights that people working in museums should be made to be more aware of the Code of Ethics that exists within their profession.
But as we are "only" detectorists its is deemed to be unfitting by some to point out such discrepancies.

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording OUR heritage for future generations.

[Steve-B]

I dont disagree at all Gary and feel that the accusations levied twords the detcting community as being 'artefact hunters' only in it for the money and to be able to sell on Ebay is obviously qanother characteristic that some in the hobby apparently shares with some in archaeology.. what use that arguement now?


I dont think that the episode is as dead and buried as the PAS would like to believe as thney still have srious questions to answer in respect of their handling of the situation giving that they are a publicly funded organisation, it is wholey unacceptable that they think they can simply swep it under the carpet and act like they are unanswerable for their actions....

As to Adrianus.... I dont think he should be allowed to stay in the position that he is in, but I dont intend a witch hunt as he is human after all...

http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[BAJR Host]

I had written quite a long reply... sadly my computer decided against it being put up !

to summarise

Archaeologists have Codes of Conduct, Guidance Documents and Best Practice - in reality... there is little (unless a law has been broken) that can be done to prevent 'moral' breaches... I do know in this case that something was done... (I would prefer to go on the broad brush here - AUP and all that ....

What Steve says is incrediblly sensible, where self-determination by detectorists is followed by self policing... looking to us for guidance is like looking to the Bush Administration for help on foreign policy (personal opinion I hasten to add!)

I do think we try very hard, but perhaps could do better would be a suitable report card mark.... how can we then say to detectorists... hey.... foul... (footie reference slipped in !) you is not doing what we told you to do...

perhaps treating people as equals rather than individuals who need help tying shoelaces... Detectorists have to find their own confidence and position... as hobby or as professionals... (whatever shade in between) ... archaeologists have to look at our own procedures... and if we want to lead... then we lead by example, by gaining respect.... etc etc...

This does not take away from the fact that detectorists need to work on their (self) / (external) image... to get respect back as well... but I would say it is happening...

On one final note...

if a detectorists had done the same 'we' would have all cried out that it was exactly what 'we' knew all along.... ye canny trust em! As it is a heritage professional; in a position where you have to be squeaky clean (I know only too well myself) we are suddenly shuffling feet and coughing...

I would not like to see this go any further, but perhaps a bit of introspection on both sides is useful.....

Thanks to Steve for his thoughts... and for an intersting moral debate...

ps... if Nigel(or Paul on his behalf) contacts me by PM, I can try and sort his account... I could reset the password)

Another day another WSI?

[Steve-B]

Thanks for your kind words David.... dont suppose there is a BAJR certificate for good behaviour?....

http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[mesolithic viking]

I was going to mention this in the licence poll post but then noticed this post.

I think that what is disturbing at grass roots level is the level of incompetent people who just drift from unit to unit. The logical conclusion is that eventually they will run out of people willing to employ them, but how much damage do they do on the way? I am sure we all know of some [u]legendary </u>characters who simply cannot dig their way out of a sandpit but turn up time and time again over the years.

Some of the blame must be laid at the door of positive discrimination, being employed by daint of relationships, and staff shortage, but in some cases it's a mystery how these people find work.

I've known a council unit whose one-time finds specialist went to work armed solely with the Shire book of samian. Notable finds included some gold foil (from a fag packet) and a 'grey samian brick' which turned out to be a plastic downpipe.

I am not claiming to be Super-Digger, I know my limitations and make a point of stating them. Licencing or vocational qualifications could be the answer, or closer mentoring with a partner, or closer reference checking?

[drpeterwardle]

Mesolithic Viking said

"who simply cannot dig their way out of a sandpit".

The corect phrase is "dig their way out of a kitty litter tray" which I think comes from a paper/biography called my old marshaltown

Peter

[tom wilson]

Dr Wardle presumably refers to the following paper. It's well known outside Britain and has some interesting points, directed not at poor diggers but at non-digging scholars.

http://plaza.ufl.edu/akathy/(1982)%20Fla...lltown.pdf

I'm sure that a lot of those here will sympathise with the central thesis (although I don't entirely agree):
"I am happily too busy doing science to have time to worry
about philosophizing about it."

I'm wandering off topic, I know..

[Penfold]

YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it just me or is anyone else tired of this kind of thread??
Don't Detectorists have enough forums of their own to air this kind of thing? I come here to keep abreast of whats going on in field archaeology,work conditions, pay etc. If I want to know about whats happening (Or not) in the Detecting community I check the PAS website (Oh no, their forum is locked down, wonder why??) or I buy a copy of Searcher or Treasure Hunting.
Having been away from my PC pretty much since the beginning of the year due to working the circuit it seems to me that BAJR has become a haunt for people with axes to grind or other hidden agendas, quite frankly it's boring.:face-topic:

Penfold

[garybrun]

You say you come here to find out what is currently going on in archeology yet when it is in your face you don't want to know about it.

I asked a fair question….
“How does archaeology police its own if you have a bad apple amongst your ranks. What systems are in place to deal with such things and what discipline is brought to bare”.

This thread was an honest thread with no axes to grind whats so ever.
If I wanted to grind a few axes I promise you would hear about it but as it is I haven't finished my sword yet[:o)]



http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording OUR heritage for future generations.