what it says on the tin

[Unitof1]

The bit I work in is mostly about considering archaeology before it is destroyed by development. It is about physically being on a site and being skilled at it. It involves a lot of hardships and uncertainties except that you can rely on being taxed. Quite often is because someone wants to build a toilet in a burial ground or a pipeline through the greenbelt. I would suggest that the site skill is massively undervalued but fully exploited by authorities who have no intension of standing outside in all weathers just one step ahead of a jcb. Its about wanting to adhere to the codes of the ifa but not when they include RAOs.

Where you and I are probably most differ is where we would place the core of the profession. I would position it at the digger level although at a more highly empowered position than it is currently. I suspect you position the core in the management somewhere so

quote: your archaeology is about people and their enjoyment of it

is archaeology as entertainment, the charity trusts have archaeology as education. You are welcome to take such a view and exploit diggers as volunteers who need training as you do but how does this translate in the briefs under which commercial archaeologists compete and from that into pensions. I dont think is a big joke but then I am not on a final salary pension and have just taken savings that I put into an isa last year to pay my tax.

Vanity of vanity all is vanity

[BAJR Host]

Well, this is again wher I differ.

a) I stand outside and watch and dig, I then come back and write and draw.. (check my reports - CHC on OASIS and SCribd) I don't employ people, but do work with people who need exp. or training... not as a form of exploitation, but as a service.. for I could do the job quicker without them, but prefer to teach skills... at no cost.

I enjoy archaeology and education / entertainment is one in the same... Currently ready for a big drive to put archaeology in the classroom, getting kids to use forensic skills, using brains instead of ticking boxes. Also allowing for all the inherit skills of field archaeology as well as those of all the other elements... the photographer, the illustrator, the surveyor, the botanist, the geophysist...etc..etc.... there is more to archaeology that your limited view of person standing in field watching a toilet in a graveyard.

A digger is one of many many specialists involved in the process. and for me, to have fun into the bargain (or at least have the opportunity to every so often have fun!) is a great part of what I and many others do. You don't seem to consider that trusts are only doing it for selfish and money grabbing means... perhaps they are doing it becasue its what we should all like to do, but are so caught up in the developer funded marcket, we don't take time to breathe in and enjoy some good honest archaeology for archaeology's sake, with people who want to do it...

I leave my coiuncil job on Friday.. and have to confess I know nothing about or care about my pension... I worry that you are holding up a mirror to your own desires... I too jsut had a tax bill in... for my commercial work... it hurt... but hey.... we all have to pay it... and I had the money.. becasue I don't undervalue myself... I charge what I feel I am worth... I don't overvalue myself either... after all... its all a gameshow!

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

Why is Uof1 so concerned about pensions? surely he's too young to be thinking of retiring-i agree with the Badger archaeology should be about enjoying one's self and hopefully helping others to do so-whether they are arch's or joe public.

[trowelfodder]

To get the pensions bit firmly out of the way first I work for a welsh trust and have had no pension entitlement at this or any other job, have nothing saved up, and have placed my head firmly in the sand!!

But to return to the origional thread as is this a council run scheme as if it is then this seems to be one of the few areas where the heritage budget isnt being squeezed tighter and tighter, and congratulations for making such a scheme work.

And on a more mercenary note the more people see archaeology first hand and work with people who are employed in the proffession the more sympathy we are likley to gain as to attempting movement on pay and conditions. Raising awareness of archaeology raises awareness of archaeologists

[Unitof1]

Tfodder Is everybody in the trust not getting a pension? Have you looked up the accounts of the firm, whats its mission statement?

And who is the fairest of them all. Hosty I await with interest your career move. You seem to be saying that you know how to charge for what its worth but that does not include a pension in effect doing archaeology for charity or you might prefer to call it investing in the future. Possibly by you not charging for your pension you will be able to undercut and drive out the competition or are you attempting to guarantee some cash flow?

[BAJR Host]

No career move... I am already all these things... and have been for years... I am (until Friday) also a Development control Archaeologist two days a week. I guess I a fairly unique... but no different.. I do my job, I get my wages... I do my job I charge an invoice for a costed amount (which includes my overheads) ... I am just an archaeologist... and I love working with communities... sometimes for free, sometimes for pay... depends how I feel.

Pensions from a company - the conditions should be made implicit in the contract when benefits such as this kick in...

My suggestion to Uo1. put yer rates up to what everyone else must be charging... or put them to what you feel worth... if you are good... they will come... works for me.... people pay for my skills, not my pretty face!

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Unitof1]

We are agreed then 18 thou a year in the superannuation is the minimum (don?t tell the competition board or the diggers)

[BAJR Host]

Would it be possible to come quickly and clearly to the point?

a) What your problem is?
b) Why it is a problem to you?
c) What is your perception of why this is important?
d) Suggestions or questions.....

vague blather is confusing



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[1man1desk]

Posted by Unit of 1, debating with BAJR Host:

quote:Where you and I are probably most differ is where we would place the core of the profession. I would position it at the digger level although at a more highly empowered position than it is currently. I suspect you position the core in the management somewhere

Its a meaningless distinction, as illustrated by Unit of 1 himself (as self-employed, one-person unit, he is both management and digger).
The 'core of the profession' cannot lie at any particular level of responsibility or authority - it has to lie in the team, by which I mean all those who are principally involved in organising archaeological projects, getting them into the field, recovering archaeological information, extracting maximum academic value from it (=post ex) and putting it into the public domain.


1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[BAJR Host]

Exactly... like myself.. who has just finished a 9 day excavation, survey and historical research project and will be writing up the report, with input from various professionals who will supply other specialist skills, such as documentary research, geophysics, metal detecting, ceramic analysis, osteology, coin evidence etc... I am both digger and management, but also part of a wider team... I am self-employed as well... with all the correct insurances and liabilities as well as the risks to income based on the job. If the job runs over, I suffer.

No problem with that ... you assume I see it at management level... you assumed wrong... I know where responsibilites lie, risks, etc ... that is different.

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu