BAJR grade 8

[Unitof1]

“the public sector positions hold the real key to quality control and enforcement”

And isnt that the truth and isnt that one of the problem- IFA or any other group v local government (occasionally central) –who sets the standards. Although peepeeg only goes as far as conceptualising a “nominated archaeologist” most authorities use the pseudo-authority of the town and country and play the “The archaeologist recognised by the authority” stranglehold. hasn’t this turned archaeology into a civil service standard and isn’t it miserable and inst it a miserable pay scale and structure even.

Around my way I have to tell the client that I have to inform the authority of the start date and then explain to the client that this is so the authority can monitor the work- including pre determination work-why? because I am a cowboy? (yes they all shouted in one voice). Well if I am shouldn’t it be the IFA or any other archaeological association to chastise me - not some pounced up underpaid local ........

Recently I had to get an environmental survey done for a condition, did they have to write a spec, did they heck. Their rates were twice mine. Why –they work to statutory law and set their own standards (must admit I think that the concept of standards should get a good going over-I wish that radio carbon dating would get very cheap so that I could send all the typology “spot date” specialists back to where ever they came from- where is that Christmas wish list. Last day for first class cards- better send one to my local.......better still send them some whiskey- oh dear - the bribery clause

PS what has Sir Marc Aurel Stein to do with PPG 16 on Wikipedia –ooh the fathomless depths of the long tail

[trowelfodder]

Lets not get bogged down in this - Mr Hosty has made some very positive sugguestions and more importantly has put his ass on the line to help impliment them! What we need now is a positive responce from diggers and for their support - things really may be changing this time so how about positive actions from forum users.

What can we do to raise awareness? How can we help stop the university students now not come into the field gratefull for the jobs thier given and afraid of losing them? Maybe now is the time for a publc awareness campaign - archaeology is enjoying a huge degree of popularity at the moment so lets show that its more than just treasure!

[BAJR Host]

quote:Not sure at all about those comparisons. A lecturer, for instance, would normally expect to have a PhD and a number of good published research papers (not limited to excavation reports) before appointment, and how many Project Officers can say that?
Bear in mind as well that a lecturer will normally have been a post-Doctoral Research Fellow (or some similar title), not a research assistant, before appointment to teaching staff. Shifting from the full-time research grades to teaching grades often involves a pay cut - i.e. they may drop down to the scale you indicate.

Lecturer A = the bottom of the Lecturer ladder (G5)
Post-Doctoral Research Fellow (G4)
Research assistant (G3/4)

AS trowel says... lets not get bogged down too much... it is (as has been shown ) very difficult to fit a single grading sytem into a 4 types of heritage professional system. But we have to start somewhere... and minimums are the best we can hope for...



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[hurting-back]

quote:Originally posted by 1man1desk

Posted by BAJR Host:

quote:Lecturer A (roughly a Project Officer) or G5 are starting on c. £29,300 (G5 = 18450 minimum )
Research asst (like a junior supervisor ) or G3/4 are starting on roughly 21k (G4 = 16137 minimum )

Not sure at all about those comparisons. A lecturer, for instance, would normally expect to have a PhD and a number of good published research papers (not limited to excavation reports) before appointment, and how many Project Officers can say that?
Bear in mind as well that a lecturer will normally have been a post-Doctoral Research Fellow (or some similar title), not a research assistant, before appointment to teaching staff. Shifting from the full-time research grades to teaching grades often involves a pay cut - i.e. they may drop down to the scale you indicate.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

Sorry if I am getting bogged down, and maybe I am misreading 1man's intention, but I have to say that while a project officer may not have the same level of publications, there are many other areas of responsibility that a project officer has that a lecturer simply does not. This includes implementing onourous health and safety plans, being responsible for projects worth much more than your average research grant year in and year out, undertaking a high level of client liaison in a high pressure commercial environment to name but a few. I am not saying that a lecturer would not have to explain themselves to a granting committee, or be responsible for the safety of students etc...but the same scaling that 1man applies to a project officers report writing when compared to published research papers can be applied in turn to these other factors that many project officer's deal with, with which many lecturers only do in a limited capacity.

So I would argue that the comparison is in fact justified - though I am of course open to debate on this....

don't panic!

[drpeterwardle]

I have to say that the notion of establishing pay parity between academic and field archaeology is going to be difficult if not impossible.

I think in many respects debating if a grey literature for an evaluation equates to an academic paper submitted to learned journal is not worthwhile. The jobs are very different. No such pay parity exists for example in law, architecture or town and country planning.

Lecturers have responcibities that field officer dont have and vice-versa. Field officers donot set exam questions for example.

Peter Wardle

[1man1desk]

I wasn't thinking about the comparison so much in terms of responsibilities (although I know that is what the BAJR scale is based on) as in terms of qualifications and experience required before you are likely to be appointed.

It is a question that I can look at from an informed but neutral perspective, as I don't work either in a field unit or in academia, but I do have close contacts in both.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished