PAS alert!

[tom wilson]

Tom... please take a step back... accept my asurance that Gary was not taking a pop... rather stimulating debate...



You comment about " I don't equate people chatting on a forum with effective action myself" could also be construed as offensive to BAJR users... suggesting we are all talk and no action....

Frankly David, that's nonsense. At the risk of repeating myself, plenty of people give plenty of advice that many people find useful and empowering. What would be the use of a long stream of posts that just say 'ooh, isn't it awful'? Who is to say that those people don't care just because they don't post? Furthermore, why shouldn't such people be annnoyed by attempts to 'stimulate debate' like Gary's?

I'll be taking that step back now. If anyone has any constructive ideas, count me in.

freeburmarangers.org

[BAJR Host]

Tom mate... You are the one that said you don't equate chatting on a forum with effective action.... as you say... plenty people give plenty of advice and people find it useful ...... if nobody posted then nobody would have any help at all...

Stimulate debate... too damn right..... if you have any constructive ideas... please share them... and I mean that honestly... do you agree with what is suggested... do you think it is as bad? do you like the cut of Roy Clares jib?

Is the cost per find 'good' or 'bad' is it a fair price... is splitting the PAS wise... has regionalisation worked in other cases...etc etc..............

Britarch keeps safe just now... and talks about silbury poems and celtic oppida in france .... if Britarch wants to talk about that... its fine by me... its a free country... there are other important issues... pay, benchmarking, northants, listed buildings, etc.... more prickly issues... and here seems to be the best place for that... each to their own... and long may it be that way... but to have a place worth coming to look... we have to have something worth reading....

and over 2000 people a day come to the BAJR forum... which is great... and most do not post.. which is fine... but thanks to those that do...

Don't take it personal Tom... if you don't want ot be part of that debate... then as is your right... don't get involved.

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Steve-B]

quote: It has been pointed out to me about a post on Britache ... where N. Swift looked with Daily Mail outrage at £24 per find for the PAS - and suggested that this was bad value for money... ... I am intrigued to know how much 'good' value for money is...

To know if it is good or bad... one must have a comparator... I notice that when challanged, he went on to suggest that 12 quid a find was even better.... (how very Thatcherite!) Taking into consideration, the recording, research, data input, office costs, wages, materials, travel, photography etc etc... it comes out at circa 1-1.5 hours per find... so not too bad... or am I wrong.... in the commercial world... where budgets are by neccesity tight... is £24 an artefact from finder to published good or bad? HELLLLLLLLLLLLP.

I feel there are areas that can be tightened in the PAS... but surely you make these adjustments after you look into them.... not before ( Good ol' Thatcherism again!)

David, with respect I think it is highkly misleading to become cuaght up in the anti PAS claims of what it cost to find ratio 'is'.

The figures they throw about are rubbish, recording 'artefact hunters' finds is just a small part of what the PAS are about.

If anyone is going to realistically look at the cost price of the PAS's products, you first have to identify each and every product and bring it into the equation.

Or are the antis suggesting the the PAS only offer one product and one service?

If so this this is seriously misleading, possibly intetionally so.

Recording finds is just one of the services that the PAS provide.

What about policing the internet for potential treasure... cost per session doing this or do we work on a cost per treasure Item found?

Outreacing to the non metal detecting public, should we cost per visit or per hour? as stated on Britarch, in 2006 alone the PAS were involved in 776 outreach events.

Developing eductional resources for children, what do think the costing would be on that?

Developing the Roman Coin identification guide, my thats surely got to have cost a few bob.

These are just a few examples of the end products of the PAS..

So what are we looking at in terms on cost per find recorded... probably pence!!!

In real terms... reality, realistic terms... the PAS has actually made massive achievements whilst being severely under funded, streamlined... they have been for the last 10 years!





http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

If a job is worth doing, then its worth doing it tomorrow!

Homer (Simpson)

[Steve-B]

quote:Britarch keeps safe just now...

David, I think you will find that the CBA have more than stuck their collective head above the parapet on this matter:

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/news/pas.html

One look at the E petition and I see several names I recognise from Britarch.



http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

If a job is worth doing, then its worth doing it tomorrow!

Homer (Simpson)

[BAJR Host]

CBA have indeed stuck their head above the parapet.. as has Colin Renfrew, as has BAJR as have many others.. many on BAJR have... but please do not confuse the CBA with Britarch... nor confuse BAJR with the comments on this Forum.

As to your remarks on the cost per find... absolutely... indeed you may have noticed that was exactly the point made on Britarch...

and when that question ws asked, those trying to use the blunt instrument of cost per find... were quickly silent...

as to asking here?

Well... as I already have a rough idea..(being a consultant) I was pretty damn sure that even IF it was just seen as 24 quid a find, this was actually STILL good value... the additional activities of PAS, the cost of photography, and reporting, and rsearch and ttravel (which if you had read my post you would see I commented on) cannot be summed up at take total cost of PAS.... Like so many organisations, it is just the tip of a large iceberg... and that said... even if it is as much as 24 quid a find that would actually be good value....

Some who would prefer to cut funding THEN look at what would be the best idea, are missing a couple of screws...

PAS is not alone though suffering cuts
80 million off Physics......
200 million of Arts Council....

this is a very bad decent into non-Kultchoor...

you don't often see money put back into it, and if you take the Arts Council example - in 3 years the Govt. could make a big thing about pumping an extra 100 million into the scheme... and still be less than it was today... cunning huh?

Govt... not out for the public?? Shurely Not?

I once again urge people to support the PAS. To sign the petition and to read carefully anything that is said... lest hasty conclusions are jumped to.


"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Steve-B]

No Confusion David here David, one look at the E petition shows many familiar manes form Britarch, I guess showing ones head above the parapet isnt alaways about setting oneself up for personal attacks, there are always more than one way of showing support.

Did you post on Britarch, sorry I didnt notice.



http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

If a job is worth doing, then its worth doing it tomorrow!

Homer (Simpson)

[BAJR Host]

Britarch is the CBA's email list... however, you don't have to be a member of the CBA to be a member of Britarch.

point of order... thats all.

just like here... oh... hold on.... BAJR has no membership at all... [:I]


"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[BAJR Host]

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Preserve and Invest in the Portable Antiquities Scheme. More details

Submitted by Kevin Haughton of UK Detector Net – Deadline to sign up by: 13 February 2008 – Signatures: 964

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/PAS-Funding/

You have signed? Up to you of course.


"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[BAJR Host]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/PAS-Funding/?showall=1

30th December - 1117 Signatures

please please circulate and sign, if you feel that you can or agree with the sentiments of ensuring the PAS remains as a single entity, with secure (as it ever can be) funding

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[BAJR Host]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com//whall/?id...ies#g423.0

The debate continues

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu