Subsistance allowance

[Blacktusk]

How many archaeological companies pay subsistance for away jobs when in self-catering accomodation? The company i work for refuses to pay anything which i think is highly unfair.

[Sparky]

Hello Blacktusk,
Sounds quite unfair and not normal or acceptable.
Are they a large unit or a smaller outfit?
Have they advertised or does it state on your contract that they will pay subsistence?
Look at this pervious thread. If your employer won’t pay subsistence then work for another company that does. There are plenty of them, as long as it is convenient for you.

http://www.bajr.org/bajrforum/topic.asp?...ubsistence

I would be interested to know if they are claiming this from the client….

Sparks

[BAJR Host]

Sparky... you have said it all.



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Blacktusk]

Thanks for the reply. The company is medium sized and after speaking to the senior managers i was told `ooh we never got any subsistance when we were on the circuit` and `there is no money in the budget` It is totally wrong to expect to stay away for no extra renumeration as a number of the diggers have family and as we are on fairly low wages as it is, i feel its unfair to expect people to pay extra for food.

[Sparky]

Blacktusk wrote:

quote:`ooh we never got any subsistence when we were on the circuit`

Thats not on. From leaving school, I worked as an apprentice and I wouldn't recommend the conditions and practices that was accepted not so very long ago. And the generation before me had it worse which it explains their actions to us apprentices. It is not right to treat other people as we have ourselves been maltreated. We learn from our and others’ mistakes in order to progress, or deal with situations in a better way.

We have moved on from ideals and notions born out of the Industrial Revolution and the hardships of the last centuries' wars. Condition change because they were not acceptable then and they are certainly not acceptable now. Its down to the individuals who have stood up and been counted why things have changed for the better over the years. Hosty and many others who contribute to the site are an example, not forgetting many who remain silent but active.

For your managers to suggest that its ok for what I can only describe in the history of professional archaeology, as in the Dark Ages, is disgusting and no excuse. Sounds to my cynical mind that someone is on the take. My opinion. Furthermore, if there is not money in the budget then they sound like bad managers. Do you want to work for someone when you might be able to do better; lets face it, you are already asking the right questions.

Perhaps you should contact our host who is, apparently, not only a good negotiator on these matters but also someone in the IFA. I would warn you though that it might come to the attention of your managers who, from your description, don’t sound like the most caring types. I would also check your contract and advertisement for the post that you took.

Good Luck!!!

Sparks (Hic!)

PS: Even on most research digs you will be given some form of living allowances though not necessesarlily cash.

[BAJR Host]

contact me offline... as I too would be interested in this...

if you are expected to work "away from home" in a place where cost of living is not the same as 'living at home' then yes BAJR would agree with subs... as do most other companies.

I always looked at it this way... (and still do)

If you are provided with accomodation that is self catering... the food bill will be the same as if you were at home...
If you must go out for dinner, or are unable to provide a 'normal' meal during the time at work ... ie you must pay more than as if you were at home an extra tenner .. (over and above the accomodation) its fair...

info@bajr.org



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Blacktusk]

everything has been very helpful and informative, but for those people with families, staying away, even in self-catering IS going to cost more, buying extra for yourself over the weeks will add up. Sparky was right saying that what others have gone through shouldn't be an excuse to carry on the same to people coming into the profession now. I don't like to grumble, but its one of those inconsistencies between companies and i can't move away because of family etc. Do i put up and shut up?

[drpeterwardle]

We have discussed this before.

It all depends on what was offered at the outset and the tax rules. Individual circumstances and fairness to not come into it. Everybody has costs involved in going to work many people I know spend £3000 a year on trainfares. Other people I know work away from home and they have to pay the cost of the accommodation themselves cost £10k per year.

It is a matter of choice you have to decide when you accept a job offer if the pay and conditions suit you. When tendering for a job a company will have calculated what accommodation cost will be so there will simply be no money to pay for additional benefits.

It is clear to me that some company are paying inflated subs which are clearly benefits in kind. Doing this transfers the tax liability to the individual and allows them to save the employer NI contribution thus reducing the labour costs by 9%.

Peter Wardle

(BTW when I was young we got subsistence and no wages the years known as the good old days of quality archaeology before competative tendering came in)

[Austin Ainsworth]

Blacktusk,

from your posts it reads as though you're working on an away-based site, staying in self-catering accommodation where the cost of buying food (leaving aside the family issue) is no greater than it would be if you were at home and that you aren't receiving any subsistence payments. If that is so, in agreement with Hosty's position, I don't think you're being unfairly treated.

Many companies now make subsistence payments to staff working on away-based sites regardless of the type of accommodation provided, it helps them retain staff. Is the company you work for the only one in your area that you could work for?

Unfortunately, I can't see any company paying higher levels of subsistence to staff members who have families on the basis that it's cheaper to eat at home with the family. That I believe, is something you're just going to have to live with.

All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague away kit. Half Man Half Biscuit

[kevin wooldridge]

Once upon a time collective agreements on issues such as subsistence rates, were negotiated by trade unions on behalf of groups of members....Is it worth suggesting that trade union involvement might help in this situation.