BAJR payscales 08/09 consultation

[drpeterwardle]

David said:
"the 24 days holiday thing is law now..."

I have to say it is this kind of misleading statement that I dislike.

"You do not have a statutory right to paid leave on bank and public holidays. If paid leave is given on a bank or public holiday, this can count towards your minimum holiday entitlement. There are eight permanent bank and public holidays in Great Britain (ten in Northern Ireland)."

This means that there is a BAJR increase of holiday from 28 days to 32 days well above the legal minimums in any event.

If I have mis-interpreted the law please point me in the direction of the relevant statute.

In my business we have decided to delink pay increases & grades from BAJR/IFA standards which are late, arbitary and not tailored to the inidviduals.

If we are to have collective bargaining it must be just that - collective not one sided consultations.

I would also add a combination of government/IFA/Bajr pay & employment rights makes it prohibative to take on trainees in order and conform.

Peter


According to http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/E...G_10029788

The law is as follows:

"There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are:

you are entitled to a minimum of 4.8 weeks (from 1 October 2007)
the entitlement will increase again to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009
those working part-time are entitled to the same level of holiday pro rata (so 4.8 then 5.6 times your usual working week)

you start building up holiday as soon as you start work
your employer can control when you take your holiday
you get paid your normal pay for your holiday
when you finish a job, you get paid for any holiday you?ve not taken
bank and public holidays in Britain and Northern Ireland can be included in your minimum entitlement"


Similarly the rolled up holiday pay only applies to the stat minimum and "Until 1 April 2009 you must take 4 weeks? holiday but can be paid in lieu for the new additional 0.8 week?s holiday (4 days if you work five days a week)."

[trowelfodder]

Does the extra rolled in pay apply to sick pay as this is also carried out and doesnt work too well in practice?

[BAJR Host]

24 days is the legal minimum... what is recommended (though not the law) is that bank holidays etc are not INCLUDED in the 24 days but additional to. That is up to the individual employer... however... ALL RAOs are required by the IFA to carry this out. (though how I am not sure)

From 1 October 2007 all workers have a statutory right to at least 4.8 weeks paid annual leave (that's 24 days paid holiday if you work five days a week).


I should point out to Peter... and I know he knows! .......... the BAJR levels are a minimum .. a level under which (unless their are circumstances that are made clear) the company can't place adverts on BAJR. It is not telling you ... personally that what ever you are paying you MUST raise by x% ... BAJR has no right or mandate to do so. If you wish to advertise a position, and you pay over the minimum grade then fine... if you offer more, then you will likely get better choice of applicant, if you conditions include a weeks holiday in BArbados and company expense, and chauffuer driven transport to and from site, with a Harvey Nicks clothing allouance... then you will get what you pay for.....

If you offer the minimum rate, and a tent (deductions for tent rent taken from your pay) with no help in walking the 10 miles to site every day....

see what I mean? If you are already offering more and better conditions... then you are already fine.

As to the lateness.. I do apologise both here and in the document... but make it clear that I was hopeful (perhaps too hopeful) that the long awaited benchmarking would have been published ... it has not, so I could wait no longer.... I have come up with a possible senario that has so far been accepted as reasonable and realistic... only one complaint so far.... and from someone who already provides the requirements





"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[drpeterwardle]

My understanding of what the IFA require is 20 days + bank holidays and the new legal requirements do not make any difference to this. So why has the Bajr amount of holiday been changed? How can you justify this action?

There has been a basic difficulty with pay and conditions in archaeology for 30 years - the link with local authority pay scale.

The tenders to cover the pay rise were done several months ago so it is simply not acceptable to be told that pay must increase a couple of weeks before they are implemented or worse still many months late. Apologies are simply not good enough when it comes to matters like this.

In my view what must be done if the IFA/BAJR is going to impose pay scales without collective bargaining is to have a date on which the new pay rates are applied and for that to be set six months in advance. From the date of the award if a company/organisation does not conform then they should face the penalty. If the local authority units cannot conform for what ever reason they should be made to face the consequences.

As things stand the actions of the IFA/BAJR are, in my view, anti-competitive and favour the public sector. This is unacceptable. We hear a lot about employee rights on BAJR and very little about the employer?s rights. It is about time us employers had a real voice on these matters and not another round of ?consultations? on a done deal.

So David are you going to change the holiday allowance or not - it has been pointed out that you have misunderstood the law - or can you give a reason why the holiday allowance has been increased?

Peter

[Noddy]

quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle


There has been a basic difficulty with pay and conditions in archaeology for 30 years - the link with local authority pay scale.

Yeah this is very true but the local authority pay scales (for archaeologists at least) are being regraded upwards very rapidly with single status and are now (at least in some cases) well above the private sector (plus local authorities have better terms and conditions of employment). Look at the recent job adverts by Bedford and ASWYAS (plus the East Lothian HER/SMR) and they're still able to compete for work. The IFA/BAJR are already behind the times.

Going back to my previous post what is the legal difference between being paid in lieu and rolled up holiday (if rolled up holiday is illegal as stated)? I think this needs to be better defined.

[drpeterwardle]

If the local authority pay scales are being regraded good. However looking at the jobs at the moment. I notice that there are two ads an add where the pay scales at the bottom end are below the 2007/2008 rates.

(I also notice there is an add with somebody not offerring holiday pay)

Peter

[voice of reason]

Yes, IFA requirement for RAOs is still 20 days plus bank hols.

The 24 day figure is the legal minimum and can include statutory hols. If David isn't getting these mixed up and is applying unilaterally, then not many organisations will be advertising!

[Noddy]

Or they'll be forced to offer better terms and conditions of employment....

[achingknees]

quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle


Also mentioned the standard working week of 37.5 hours with no mention of tea breaks which in fact equates to a real 35 hour week.

I have not seen a contract or job advert that ever mentions tea breaks. As I understand it, legally, lunch breaks are not paid, and are usually 30 mins. Everywhere I have worked tea breaks are discretionary (but almost always granted) and occur within a paid block of time.

[BAJR Host]

There is a cross over period... while we iron out a glitch... (my fault entirely)

EVERYONE must provide at least 24 days holdiday pa and EVERYONE must provide SSP

IF... you provide ADDITIONAL ENTITLEMENTS... such as holidays over 24 days, a company pension and company sickness then the checkboxes will be ticked....

I have not changed the rules.

what seems to be the case witht eh IFA... is that previously, RAOs had to provide 20 days holiday PLUS 8 days bank holiday = 28 days

NOW they have to provide 24 days PLUS 4 days BANK holidays = 28 days (4 days of the bank holidays now dissapearing into the
24 days) so which 4 days of holiday are being chosen then?




"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu