Plundering our national treasure: Inside Out on trail of the South's illegal treasure hunters

[belzoni]

The archaeological crime has already been committed before the nighthawks arrive. By putting these objects in the shop window by ploughing, the system is mostly to blame. Take them out of the shop window and the nighthawks will not enter the shops. Believe it or believe it not..
You cannot blame the seagulls at the tip for scavenging the randomly disposed surface pickings, its the people that allow it to be put there is the problem. If you cannot stop it being put there, you must try collect and record it yourself. That is the only answer, trust me. :p

[garybrun]

That is a very good point Belzoni.
Why EH dont organise systematic surveys on these areas.
If its been cleaned and recorded.. there is not a reason to go on there.
I dont know why they dont see it.
There are literally 1000's who would be willing to help... but NO... well just let it rot.
With the attitude... "we cant afford to look at it... neither should those pesky metal detectorists.

When it comes to seeding site...
You have no idea of the capabilities of modern machines.
Your just polluting the enviroment .. cant really beleive you can think about doing that.
What about tomorrows archaeolgy... can you imagine...
Where did all this foil and iron come from??
Bloody stupid archaeologists from the previous generation thinking they know better than everyone else.
they where offered support and kept turning it down and took their own selfish methods.

[belzoni]

I dont know why they dont see it

It's like anything in life....unless you have done it properly yourself you don't fully understand it. And we as detectorists don't exactly put much effort into educating the rule makers, by use of action do we?. We do plenty of talking and moaning but that's about it. Even the finds we show are only the best complete ones, we rarely show all the tat and busted/corroded artefacts we find. And when we actually record the finds, do we ever record exactly how deep? and record the ground conditions? Nope we don't.

I myself have organised PAS & GPS recording days on sites with archaeologists down here. I have done metal detecting surveys for English Heritage before through the Oxford unit so they ARE capable of working with us! Perhaps I ought to make an effort when I get time and try get a few of us on a ploughed scheduled site. I know all our archaeologists down here as I work with them, even the Natural England chap is a good friend Our FLO would be eager too as we have already done the GPS recording days and other things. Would probably need help with English Heritage though...

[BAJR Host]

I have recieved this from EH... so it really is up to a solid pilot project and write it all down. Here were all the objections.. which is quite handy. Most of tham are easy to solve.

The practicalities of the sheer number of SAMs, the definition of ?surface? in relation to intact buried archaeological deposits, the costs of processing, identifying, conserving, storing and publishing of all the finds that would be recovered, the implication of coordinating and policing such a programme effectively, the impact of access, legal ownership and the Treasure Act and the implications for non-Scheduled sites also being attacked, all combine to convince us that your suggestion is simply unworkable.

So with a small group of say 5-10 with one archaeologist and a FLO and do it on 3 sites. Measure the time taken, the finds collected, the state of the finds, the type of site...etc.. and whether the site sees a decline in Nighthawking (we could use the Oxford data) and then we have a real template and costs.

I, like you know it can be done... so the gauntlet is down..

[belzoni]

It's interesting that EH think it unworkable for those reasons. Most of the same reasons that a sensible detectorist overcomes every day. I could easily organise the site/permission, the FLO and the archaeologist. Finds would only be collected from the ploughsoil (as usual) and ownership would be subject to landowner agreement as usual. The treasure act is the treasure act, what's unworkable about that? Are they thinking because it's a scheduled site that landowner and finder should perhaps surrender any claim to the state? I guess more costs might be a concern. Wouldn't bother me as it's par for the course and I doubt it would bother others. Landowner might not like it though.

When I organised the GPS/PAS recording days we did it on council land. This made things easier as to the ownership of finds.

I actually detected a scheduled site last week with archaeologists- even got paid. I believe the derogation delayed it a bit but it still went through ok.

[belzoni]

I'll make a few enquiries tomorrow.

[BAJR Host]

Exactly lets do it!

[Unitof1]

so you want to know the answer to everything about Ripping up the past, Archaeology in Arable Landscapes, you read everything about MARS and everything COSMIC, cheered when mysterious un-located holes in long barrows revealed that the barrows were all no longer there. If you do want to know the answer you don’t have much longer to wait

but in the mean time they have started putting some of the answers on the end of a barge pole like here,

http://asae.frymulti.com/abstract.asp?aid=27000&t=2

about ?400000 worth I think

[Steven]

Hi David, I think your going too far here chap!

[Unitof1]

Understanding plough damage

Edward Vaizey (Conservative MP for Wantage) put a parliamentary question to the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on 20 March to ask ?what estimate her Department has made of the number of designated monuments that have been damaged by agricultural cultivation in the last ten years??. Back, via Culture Minister David Lammy, came the answer: ?my Department does not hold such information. However, English Heritage is currently undertaking a programme of regional Scheduled Monuments at Risk studies which will help to quantify the number of Scheduled Monuments under continuous or periodic cultivation, and the proportion of these considered to be at risk of damage. The outcomes of this research will be published by English Heritage later this year.?


:face-kiss:For once this is no brush-off:face-kiss:: The Archaeologist has an article explaining how English Heritage and DEFRA (the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) are working together on research to understand better exactly what happens to monuments under cultivation. These partners have in turn commissioned Oxford Archaeology to construct simulated archaeological features ? buried walls, pits, ditches and postholes ? which researchers at Cranfield University?s Soil Science Department are then cultivating using different techniques to understand what happens to sub-surface features and whether changes in farming practice can help.


This is a five-year project, but the results are clearly of great importance given the commitment in the Heritage Protection White Paper to provide better protection for scheduled monuments under cultivation: