Pay and Conditions

[Steven]

Wickerman - I think if a national strike took place, every developer would apply to have the arch condition removed from their permission as their ability to discharge it would be beyond their control and therefore "unreasonable" as defined in planning law.

Or if they had been required to carry out predetermination evaluation they would simply request the LPA determine their application because it would be beyond their power to achieve an eval.

I'm all for direct action but a general strike will not achieve better pay.

The simple answer is that we should be chartered so that we have a professional body that we ALL support and supports us ALL rather than a half a**ed voluntary body that only represents a minority and that is generally more supportive of larger companies who's directors/managers are on its council/boards.

On that point...have you seen how much the institute pays it's staff? Maybe if they accepted the same pay as the rest of us they might actually be more sympathetic to the realities of sharp end archaeology.

[wickerman]

wonder how many times we have to put up with site contractors laughing/flabberghasted at the pay we receive. Was on projectt his year where site labourer thought my monthly wage was a weekly one!Your right about chartered bodies but where is the incentive to get this organised?

[Sparky]

"The simple answer is that we should be chartered so that we have a professional body that we ALL support and supports us ALL rather than a half a**ed voluntary body that only represents a minority and that is generally more supportive of larger companies who's directors/managers are on its council/boards."

We've got one of those already and it hasn't appeared have sorted out pay and conditions in the last twenty odd years. Funny that.

[Unitof1]

Strike while the iron is hot

and in the striking make the iron hotter

[Windbag]

A couple of comments:
1) The IfA is moving towards establishing chartered status for archaeologists. The new archaeological practice qualifications and CPD requirements for members are the first step.
2) The pay and conditions of a profession are not correlated to the profession's willingness to go on strike. Compare professional careers: lawyers, doctors and accountants have better pay and conditions than teachers, even though teachers are thoroughly unionized and more willing to strike for better pay and conditions. The difference is in creating barriers to entry and creating a demand for your services. At the moment, anyone can set themselves up as an archaeologist in this country, and we survive because of planning guidelines.

[BAJR Host]

To be honest.. I really don't think there will be such a thing as a chartered archaeologist... honestly...

The barrier to entry can be achieved without it, in as much as 'practising' archaeology can be adequately (or shall we say could be adequately) achieved with stronger requirements for proof of competence... and indeed a form of approved contracting. With the real potential that creating any legal barrier to archaeology putting the buffers on the amateur archaeology world. Standards ... YES and in the main we have them... ENFORCEMENT ... ah... now there is the rub

[kevin wooldridge]

I agree David, despite it sounding like the panacea to everything 'chartered archaeologist' is not going to happen. The cost implications alone will always deter its potential and possible implementation (Imagine the complexities and backbiting involved in trying to create an archaeological 'police-force' with teeth to monitor the profession. And the inevitable cry of 'Who guards the guardians') If that is the case, I wonder if there is any point in anyone investing time or resources in trying to achieve the unachievable.

But then again curators don't seem willing (or resourced) to take on the role of standards adminsistrator either. So where does that leave us?

The Germans have an expression with regards to their personal honesty in paying income tax which roughly translates to 'a matter of discussion between your conscience and God'. Are we in a similar situation as regards to professional archaeological standards?

[BAJR Host]

If only people would look to their own conscience ... rather than scrabbling to teh top of the greasy pole

[kevin wooldridge]

Your last comment David reminds me of the sage words of one of my first archaeological supervisors (sadly no longer still with us). He told me 'Always be nice to the people you pass on your way up the slppery pole in archaeology, cos people tend to have long memories if you happen to meet them on your way slippng back down the same pole'......He also told me to never overestimate the intelligence of the great and good in British archaeology....I have tried my best to live by both bits of advice!!

Gosh!! memories of glories past. It must be nearly Christmas....

[trowelfodder]

It does seem very clear to me that issues over standards are intimately connected to the problems over pay and conditions. In a situation of competative tendering there is huge pressue on companies to bring in jobs on tender and on time and often this has to involve cutting corners.

It doesnt matter what your concience tells you if there is no support or fair transparent complaints system within which concerns can be raised and those a the bottom of the pile can often do very little.

If you wont comply you are siply moved and someone else will carry out the job insted !

Basically its another area where the ifa fails and there needs to be an alternative - after 20yrs how much longer must we wait