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14th April 2010, 04:14 PM
Am assuming you're referring to the 'grey' stuff, glad they pass
Sadly the projects that have had the most research put into them seem to be the one's that are still 'forthcoming' (years on) or 'in prep' :face-crying:although at least that means they can be continually tinkered with :p
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14th April 2010, 09:06 PM
... Yup... I should say I was not judging you personally ... :I just making the point that commercial and academic seem to work on both different timescales and different needs.
Have actually started three research projects - and one which has been running for a couple of years now has only dawned on me, that I don't have a client.... and... I can take my time... relax...
Its quite liberating, but a bit scary too!
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15th April 2010, 01:57 PM
Have come into this late, so I'm not going to comment on too much!
HERs/SMRs - Many in the south of England charge for their staff time (where it is over and above a minumum in many cases - often half an hour) and charge everyone. Speaking from experience in setting up a charging regime in a similar type of collection, this is because it is difficult to work out who is public/commercial/aceademic. (For example - if an academic is being paid to do the research, where do they fit.....)
I insist that OASIS is in any WSIs I approve, whether I have a commercial or a curatorial hat on.
Academics accessing grey literature - I have seen it happen, but not often. I agree that many I have come across have been put off by the fact that the reports have not been written in order to answer their needs. I agree with an earlier contributor that many do not seem to understand the layout of the reports - a problem which also seems to beset some commercial archaeologists.
And a final point - Interpretation/assessment in 'grey literature' - this is a vital part of any report. It needs a certain amount of research (to see if anyone else has found anything similar in the next field at the very least!) and consideration. In order to do this, you need the people who have done the site work (hopefully at least one of whom is writing it up!) to have done their job properly and actually thought about it. You can't decide what the relationship between those two ditches is unless someone has worked it out at the time!
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15th April 2010, 02:08 PM
[am desperately ignoring the 'commercial or curatorial hat' comment above....]
Having finally got around to reading the original article, I note that none of the 'academics' in it actually manage to mention HERs/SMRs at all, almost as if they were unaware they existed.....the only hint the 'lay' reader would get that such things existed was actually from the American contributer's comment appended to it about such things in the States.....
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15th April 2010, 03:23 PM
I guess there is good and bad in both accademic and commercial spheres, I've read site reports of insanity, seen first hand accademics writing context sheets for a lay that wasn't there and had to explain what a post-pipe was and what the seperate deposits in a post-hole mean during a debate about the charred grain found at a neolithic longhouse. I was shocked at that one to see so many blank faces!
Both spheres have strengths and weaknesses in the way they approach archaeology. Both sides seem to misunderstand each other, both sides need to comunicate better.
As to comments about accademic diggers not being valued on a commercial dig........ I've had experience at both ends of the scale: the problematic, cranky, exceptionally experienced, exceptionally useful, font of vital knowledge craftsman (person); and the slow know-it-all, b*llsh*tter who wont and can't learn and fails to grasp that for a fair days pay you must do a fairs days work........}
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15th April 2010, 05:34 PM
Interesting discussion. In conversation with a noted academic archaeologist from one of the big universities, it became clear to me that he not only understood what an HER/SMR was, but used them too, so it is not all academics, although I have encountered more than a few, who did not think that commercial archaeology was really relevant to them. Shame on them. On a side note, I once rang up a professor at a northern university in England for a reference for one of their students and was treated to a long rant about how appalling commercial archaeology was. They finished up by commenting that they never employed "circuit diggers" on their research digs because "circuit diggers" had too many bad habits. They never did actually give their student a proper reference. It rather exemplified the divide between academe and the commercial sphere to me. How long is it since there have been "circuit diggers" around?
'Reality,' sa molesworth 2, 'is so unspeakably sordid it make me shudder.'
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15th April 2010, 06:36 PM
I guess research digs will vary a lot too, dependant on who's running them and their own experience of digging and personal quirks and theories............e.g. carved chalk willies, ritual over functional, and neolithic houses or special ritual structure!
I love your quote Odinn - where's it from.
'Only an Arab would bring a dog to war.'
-13th warrior
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15th April 2010, 07:00 PM
Jack Wrote:I guess research digs will vary a lot too, dependant on who's running them and their own experience of digging and personal quirks and theories............e.g. carved chalk willies, ritual over functional, and neolithic houses or special ritual structure!
It's all down to the individuals in the end, not whether they work in the commercial or academic sphere.
Quote:I love your quote Odinn - where's it from.
Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society ca. 1982 or so (old RPG mag). The article was actually about the physics of particle beam weapons. Does this officially out me as a geek? :I
Quote:'Only an Arab would bring a dog to war.'
-13th warrior
I wish Bernard Cornwell had paid heed to this quotation when writing his Arthurian series.
'Reality,' sa molesworth 2, 'is so unspeakably sordid it make me shudder.'
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15th April 2010, 07:50 PM
Quote:It's all down to the individuals in the end, not whether they work in the commercial or academic sphere.
Perhaps this is the next hatchet to bury... and not in each other!
WElcome Odinn - most welcome indeed
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15th April 2010, 09:48 PM
By the way... and don't think I am going soft... ! However, I am glad to see new folk on BAJR... Dino, Jack, Odinn, Dirty Boy and more... who are adding a lot to the place. Alternative views... balance and debate.. a nd most of all... speaking their minds.
Thats what BAJR is really about... (of course within AUP
) SO thanks... and carry on BAJRing
