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Sorry, but to say again, I haven't suggested that com arch is taking professional jobs, and I'm not entirely sure anyone else has either. Is it a basis for supporting the professions? I'm not entirely sure.
The reason I was annoyed is this continuing theme of 'I love my archaeology, me' and 'the archaeology comes first' - anyone who dares step out of rank is attacked by the digging martyrs brigade! I may have said 'it is just a job' and I do not find the term 'temporal contamination engineer' offensive but I also spend most of my time outside of work reading about archaeology, watching archaeology programmes on TV etc etc. When I am at work, like many others I'm sure, it often is 'just a job', otherwise how else to get through the hours of tedium involved? While it is considered a sin to suggest such things then the 'profession' is going no where. After all, archaeology is just a thing and it depends on functioning people to explain it. If those people are not functioning particularly well then the archaeology is either not explored at all or badly explored. SO the quality of the archaeology is dependant on the quality of the people. Feeling that you have to put up with poor conditions etc because 'the archaeology is what's important' is damagaing to the archaeology, which generates a bit of a paradox.
Anway, straying slightly off topic now.
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Think BAJR's comments were aimed at my post at the bottom of the previous page, actually......
.....seems to have livened things up anyway :face-stir:
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The concept of ?community archaeology? is not new (and see Liddle, in prep., for discussion of its development in Leicestershire in the 1970s).
Possibly because of the lack of the forth coming, in prep, it has dawning on me that I don?t know what community archaeology is or for that matter what a community archaeologist does. I have seen the term referring to a curator/ county archaeologist/assistant (also terms which I might add are not to precise). Do they work out of museums. Comarch apparently is freelance at it. Is there a core skill.
The CA victims seem to jump from public to local community to children to archaeological societies
Quote:[SIZE=3]I, as a freelance community archaeologist, do not want field archaeologists to be burdened with training members of the public.
Why not? I have a price which I can double[/SIZE]
Quote:[SIZE=3]said supermarket chain can then put in for planning for a new store on the site secure in the knowledge there will be no expensive archaeological constraints thrown in their path (since the archaeology has already been totally removed....), and no work for commercial archaeologists.....
[/SIZE]
I think it should read "..and no work for archaeologists" Surely the great unwashed want to trained by a proper archaeologist rather than someone who cant get a teaching qualificfation.
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Unitof1 Wrote:The concept of ?community archaeology? is not new (and see Liddle, in prep., for discussion of its development in Leicestershire in the 1970s).
Possibly because of the lack of the forth coming, in prep, it has dawning on me that I don?t know what community archaeology is or for that matter what a community archaeologist does. I have seen the term referring to a curator/ county archaeologist/assistant (also terms which I might add are not to precise). Do they work out of museums. Comarch apparently is freelance at it. Is there a core skill.
The CA victims seem to jump from public to local community to children to archaeological societies
Why not? I have a price which I can double
I think it should read "..and no work for archaeologists" Surely the great unwashed want to trained by a proper archaeologist rather than someone who cant get a teaching qualificfation.
You won't be paid because units who do community projects expect you to do it for nothing.
The core skill I have is 20 years professional and 40 years study. But I am still wiling to learn how to improve my skills and do as good a job as possible.
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I so agree. That is why CA should not be left to diggers, who are asked by units to take it on. Only committed CAs who are regulated by a peer group, as are units, should work in this area, backed by units/local authorities etc. We have all worked with 'disfunctioning' individuals and units and this must be minimized in CA.
'Taking jobs' is the impression I get, not just in this thread.
I am not a teacher and do not want to be one. But I have a body of knowledge that I try to impart to those who have an interest. And I am still willing to learn. Are you Unit? Or are you going to continue to pontificate on a subject you have admitted to knowing nothing about?
Public support is always the bases of anything in society. Why do you think we have legislation? If no one gave a s**t politicians wouldn't either and the situation would be the same as 25 years ago and the archaeology of this country would still be ripped out and destroyed without record.
Look, CA is here, so why not work together to sort out the problems rather than stick ones head down and arse up and hope it goes away.
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Fraid so Redearth. But as Dino says... it has livened up the debate.
There is a tightrope to walk here... CA is about involvement... Professional is about doing it all the time. Both groups can enjoy a discovery prog about Maya, or the TIme team (ahem) or read about it... the difference comes in the times... a CA group can learn, but come the next time... it still needs the pro to guide, help and encourage... BUT.... BUT... it is the glasshouse for new talent, the breeding ground and training pitch where the next gen of archaeologists comes from. I think there is a specific job for Temporal Contamination Engineers (TCE) as the TCE becomes integrated into the development and construction idustry, but let us never forget why we (should ) do it... for the thrill of discovery... whether a 19th century cellar or a villa. Currently I am looking at a landscape in Croatia which they want to be Roman and Illyrian, its more 15th - 20th century... but wow... its amazing... i excites me, every wall, every track opens the past.. and as one who came up through society to digger to what I am now (gawd knows) I feel it in my bones... every time I take a group or train them to use a dumpy or show how to recognise building construction changes to record a building... they actually want to know... now they won't be able to be commercial... without com Archs ... but the passion... the desire to learn and seek out knowledge... now thats archaeology.
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BAJR Wrote:Fraid so Redearth. But as Dino says... it has livened up the debate.
There is a tightrope to walk here... CA is about involvement... Professional is about doing it all the time. Both groups can enjoy a discovery prog about Maya, or the TIme team (ahem) or read about it... the difference comes in the times... a CA group can learn, but come the next time... it still needs the pro to guide, help and encourage... BUT.... BUT... it is the glasshouse for new talent, the breeding ground and training pitch where the next gen of archaeologists comes from. I think there is a specific job for Temporal Contamination Engineers (TCE) as the TCE becomes integrated into the development and construction idustry, but let us never forget why we (should ) do it... for the thrill of discovery... whether a 19th century cellar or a villa. Currently I am looking at a landscape in Croatia which they want to be Roman and Illyrian, its more 15th - 20th century... but wow... its amazing... i excites me, every wall, every track opens the past.. and as one who came up through society to digger to what I am now (gawd knows) I feel it in my bones... every time I take a group or train them to use a dumpy or show how to recognise building construction changes to record a building... they actually want to know... now they won't be able to be commercial... without com Archs ... but the passion... the desire to learn and seek out knowledge... now thats archaeology.
BAJR I want your babies...oh, better have a sex change first.
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Speaking as someone who came from CA but has then spent over 30 years digging for a 'living' (or more recently actually for quite a decent living), I'm all for well-targeted CA involvement. Wierdly I seem to working in practically the only bit of Britain where there aren't really that many groups we could get involved, although it's been good on the occasions it has happened for both sides. A good example was a job I did 7 or 8 years ago where, owing to a total f**k-up by a curator we were having to remove a chunk of stratified Roman archaeology mostly by machine and record what we could with no time and no a stupid budget, but we got 'leant' about 30 members of an actually fairly distant archaeological society (different county) who came out a couple of weeekends, and with a couple of us who were up for doing the weekends for free we hand-dug and recorded a lot of what would have been machined away the following Monday - they really enjoyed themselves and we massively enhanced the quality of the site record. Had no effect on the 'commercial' part of the job (they only did 'work' over-and-above the WSI etc and outside the contract, the client kept a good eye on that!) but was good for us, good for the unpaid enthusiasts, and good for archaeology in general. Should be more collaborations like that :face-approve:
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Dinosaur Wrote:Speaking as someone who came from CA but has then spent over 30 years digging for a 'living' (or more recently actually for quite a decent living), I'm all for well-targeted CA involvement. Wierdly I seem to working in practically the only bit of Britain where there aren't really that many groups we could get involved, although it's been good on the occasions it has happened for both sides. A good example was a job I did 7 or 8 years ago where, owing to a total f**k-up by a curator we were having to remove a chunk of stratified Roman archaeology mostly by machine and record what we could with no time and no a stupid budget, but we got 'leant' about 30 members of an actually fairly distant archaeological society (different county) who came out a couple of weeekends, and with a couple of us who were up for doing the weekends for free we hand-dug and recorded a lot of what would have been machined away the following Monday - they really enjoyed themselves and we massively enhanced the quality of the site record. Had no effect on the 'commercial' part of the job (they only did 'work' over-and-above the WSI etc and outside the contract, the client kept a good eye on that!) but was good for us, good for the unpaid enthusiasts, and good for archaeology in general. Should be more collaborations like that :face-approve:
I can't have all your babies! But :face-approve:
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RedEarth Wrote:Oh, for goodness sake!
Now, that edit really good's up the meaning of my original sentiment you muddy funster!
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