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Hmm, is this becoming a pointess circular argument? Surely something like the diggers charter is a POSITIVE step froward. Much better than whinging about being whinged at or whinging. I also love the idea of a skills booklet, (sounds a bit like a pilots log book).........it will definately help when employing and using people on site...as long as the supervisor (and/or manager) takes into consideration possible inflations and missinformation.
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Dinosaur Wrote:When a slightly higher proportion of diggers start operating in a slightly more professional manner they're more likely to get taken more seriously - there are an awful lot of diggers out there who frankly can't do the job to an adequate standard (starting with using a shovel), apparently have no idea of even the basics of archaeology (judging by the c**p they manage to write in semi-English on context sheets), apparently exist on another planet, etc etc. In my book people get respect and listened to once they actually start turning in some decent work, not cos they shout loudest (and the ones wingeing are, in my experience, usually doing it instead of getting on with the job).....:face-stir:
Absolutely Dinosaur !!! ........... there is appalling excavation and recording happening all the time...why do these people bother when they have no real interest in archaeology or doing a decent job ? .... a skills passport may well help but attitude and enthusiasm are surely the right way to go .......... if people are not interested in doing it to a good standard they ought to get a job in B & Q or the like.... then they would have no cause to whinge about the other main moan on site ....the weather ...........sorry if this is a bit off thread ! :o) :o)
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I have noticed over the years that I tend to spend a lot more of my time encouraging/training the enthusiastic part of the workforce:face-approve:
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The idea was to break away from the circle which is why it has taken me (in my small part) to work oout a way of breaking the loop... you can't do this without having that, which needs the other inplace before the this can happen... well.... this could be it...
Skills passport is still a year aaway... but is being trialed in june - August... with over 200 students and volunteers... once any issues are ironed out there is no reason why it can't be transfered into main strema production...
training is as Dinasaur says often give to those who show at least a modicum of interest... and it should be that way... add in the skills passport... and those that don't make the effort to gain skills will find the path ahead not as smooth... hence incentive to learn... which needs of course a 'reward' for this effort... ...etc....
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Dinosaur Wrote:When a slightly higher proportion of diggers start operating in a slightly more professional manner they're more likely to get taken more seriously - there are an awful lot of diggers out there who frankly can't do the job to an adequate standard (starting with using a shovel), apparently have no idea of even the basics of archaeology (judging by the c**p they manage to write in semi-English on context sheets), apparently exist on another planet, etc etc. In my book people get respect and listened to once they actually start turning in some decent work, not cos they shout loudest (and the ones wingeing are, in my experience, usually doing it instead of getting on with the job).....:face-stir:
Come on, let's face it, when you started I'll bet you didn't know your arse from your elbow, I know I didn't. The problem is that firms nowadays don't have the time or inclination to train up or nurture people, once upon a time they did. That adds up to an ongoing tragedy because we loose so much potential talent from the profession through disillusion.
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I agree (obviously) that I knew sweet FA when I started on the digging circuit (although actually I at least could dig - years spending weekends on a local society dig from age 13, so yes, I'm all for 'community involvement'...) but at least I bothered to learn fast - am fed up with us taking on people on the basis of a decent-looking CV only to discover that they're absolutely useless, but for some reason seem to have convinced themselves that they're the dogs b******s. I'm all for some sort of skills passport, if it can be verified in some independent manner, maybe then we'd weed out the people who claim they know how to dig a skelly but can't etc. Would help to force people to admit they can't do things, rather than us having to find out the hard way after they've made a right hash of things. I'm quite happy to admit I have absolutely no idea how to even turn on most electronic survey gear, for instance....
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WEll... looks like there is nothing more to be said. Will be looking at creatign a second meeting at end of June to formalise the Charter... and link Unions.
The rest as they say... will be up to you :face-kiss:
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next meetin is 10th July (cross fingers) then we hit the campaign trail
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May we ask for a report from the meeting or it is all closed door stuff? Are you allowed to tell his which organisations are involved?
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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After another and final revamp...
PROSPECT, UNITE, BAJR and IfA (Diggers Forum) are all involved properly.
UNISON have to yet decide, but a member is going along as a member and will report back to them. (as an individual)
The group is made up of project managers, consultants, diggers, university academics, fieldstaff, and union reps. as well as self employed... there are women and men, younger and older. a good mix. coming from London, England (north and south), Scotland and Wales
The previous meeting was taped and full reported on... as it will be again... nothing to hide... no agendas against anyone...
Open Honest and with the best hope for the profession.
so there we are.
