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13th August 2010, 02:04 PM
Every so often there comes along a post of such eloquence and care, that you cannot help but read it in entirety, and read it again.
I may in places disagree in the detail (and here I agree with Dr Pete) for example the loss of small units - however the main premise of what commercial archaeology has become... is valid. Temporal Contamination removal.
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13th August 2010, 02:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 13th August 2010, 02:42 PM by archaeologistkarl.)
Archaeology is an immature i.e. young, under developed; industry similar to the 1920-1950 American aircraft industry. There are a load of small companies “even the largest companies in archaeology are medium size companies” trying to do small specialist jobs in archaeology today, in the 1920-1950 there where loads of American companies producing specialist planes some where like a little flash of light producing a very limited number of planes and dieing off from the lack of a target market. After World War II the companies which survived the 1920-1950 had loads of cash which lead to the post war consolidation of the market now there are three big companies all formed form buyout and mergers Boeing McDonnell Dougles, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman and all these firm had diversified there operations.
Archaeological firms need to remember that archaeology is a very specialist field, but the people how work in archaeology have a number of differing skills sets which can be applied in different sectors so when the digging dries up the companies have other sources of revenue. A case in hand is Boeing Mcdonnell Dougles has not had a major military contract in the last year so even though one of it main core industries is stalling Boeing is still making a profit. While I’m not suggesting that archaeological firms such even try these large multi national business models it is worth noting how they run and how it could be adapted into archaeology, could we soon see Wessex Archaeology not only providing archaeological evaluations but also designing Museum exhibitions? Not so far fetch as Wessex Archaeology will have a large graphics team, archivist.
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13th August 2010, 02:27 PM
FedUp Wrote:We are not saving the world, curing cancer or changing people's lives and whilst we think we're important the sad truth is that the majority of other contractors you find on site simply don't think we are.
A degree of professionalism is needed just to make sure that people put up with us.
Is this not a contradiction in terms? I don't care what the contractor thinks. It's just an excuse I hear time and time again to explain why we did a half arsed job. Why should they take us seriously when we don't ourselves. Just because they don't like us doesn't mean we should cut corners or reduce the quality of our work. Many developers are aggressive in the way they speak, its how they deal with each other. It's how we need to be back. explain what we have, how long it will take and why there are variables. It works. They don't like it sometimes but at the end of the day tough. We are there to fulfil part of there planning consent not just to tinker and play with our little obsession. If you want professionalism then show developer's that what we do is important and part of the process they NEED to undertake.
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13th August 2010, 02:33 PM
Call me whatever you like invisible man I know my name is abit of a fingerfull! Yes your right in an ideal world thats how it should be done. But in the real world it doesn't always happen. This is why we need some enforcing body above the county arch. level. And yes people care. Most diggers care. Thats why they do the job! (After all its not for the money!) I'm sure everyone on here cares. It just depends on how jaded they have become with the system
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13th August 2010, 03:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 13th August 2010, 04:06 PM by FedUp.)
I totally agree, when you get diggers turning up on site looking like a bunch of badly turned out hippies we're already starting on the back foot. A lot of the problem is that some people are great archaeologists but hold no form of social or interaction skills to be able to hold their own in the often very alpha male world of construction sites. In commercial archaeology this has to be an essential part of the archaeologist that you are.
You can't rock up on site expecting to be looked upon as important simply because you think you are. It ain't gonna happen!!!
A lot of the reason, as quite rightly already pointed out, is that money talks and we are very small beans - even in comparison to Ecologists (which i would say are viewed even further down the food chain than archaeologists on site) so all it takes is someone to shout a bit louder than you to the county mounty and you'll swiftly get told to round up and finish off.
We don't get paid anywhere near equivalent to the work we do and the skills that we have to do it, but this is why we ALL need to up prices, but as already mentioned this isn't going to happen whilst companies are trying to be competitive and win work. Until all companies (or worthwhile ones) join in with this ethos nothing will change.
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13th August 2010, 03:52 PM
Couldn't have put it better myself!
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13th August 2010, 05:31 PM
it's a funny thing that in all my 25 years in archaeology we all look still the institute of sweet fa to help us... i've been a digger and specialist and am still looking for that elusive "stable" income. when i started in the 80s it was difficult but now it seems to have deteriorated into a feeding frenzy for employers. longer hours, more responsibility for less money oh and insure yourself and buy your own tools whilst paying to live away... what other industry, because that is what we are, would put up with this??? hows about organising and standardising our own industry without big unit watching over us???
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13th August 2010, 05:43 PM
My experience of the 4 or 5 counties I've mostly worked in over the last 20 years is that the County Mounties or their underlings pretty much never turn up unless either you've found something spectacular or the whole job's gone t*ts...but then maybe things are different in other parts of the country?
Otherwise it's refreshing to find so much realism and sense on one thread, can only concur with most of what's been said above. Any attempts to push prices (and hence wages) up around here over the last 20 years have been constantly undermined by under-pricing competitors (couple of local 'subsidised' ones for a start), and recently increasingly on bigger contracts by certain very large units from the other end of the country -there's plenty of friendly (?) rivalry between the regional medium and smaller players without units from 200-300 miles away muscling in and trying to cherry-pick the good stuff.....but then sadly that's the nature of the commercial game we have to play with :0
I'm going off to drown my sorrows and watch some c**p bands in a field in the p**sing rain for the weekend, the woes of the archaeological profession are for weekdays
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16th August 2010, 03:16 PM
I can't see that an "enforcing body" is practical and national level, which is what seems to be being hinted at, and I can't really think of any other professions that has one as such. Teachers maybe, they get someone with a clipboard sitting in a classroom with prior warning. It has been suggested many times on here that IfA should carry out "policing" but again that is totally impractical and not the role of a professinal institute. Nobody is going to screech up to a site with wailing syrens and flashing lights! As I say the system is designed to work with consultants and curators ensuring that contracts are complied with and conditions met, which by definition will include standards. Almost by definition a contractor (any industry) will perform down to the minimum, which is why the minmum must be defined and enforced.
I suggest that the problem is that curators are grossly under-resourced and unsupported and thus toothless, and consultants for whatever reasons do not seem to be doing what they should in all cases.
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16th August 2010, 05:11 PM
All IFA can do really is un-RAO a company, which isn't really a punishment since non-RAOs ply a perfectly happy trade anyway!