Bone Kickers

[RedEarth]

[quote]Originally posted by BAJR Host

well just when i was feeling that MArk Horton was being unfairly treated.. we get this

http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadm...S=&P=27881

Is there anyone he has not offended yet?

well done for offending or condescending just about everyone...



/quote]


You kind of get the feeling that Mark Horton is busily digging himself a larger hole with every response (pun definately intended). Unless he is indeed also one of the writers/producers/chief executives at the BBC he should perhaps be expecting an annoyed email from the makers of the program if he's comments aren't to their liking (or perhaps a visit from shadowy agents in dark coats with semi-automatic weapons, in keeping with the last episode, which was considerably better than the first - I am really starting to get into it now!)

As for the sexism, I hate to say it but there are still some people like that in the world, even in archaeology, despite the best efforts of said men in black coats with semi-automatic weapons (or whomever it is that tries to put a stop to such things) to remove them. How you respond to it in a drama is one thing, in real life another.

Have seen enough clips of Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes I can only assume that part of the writers style is to have an excuse a for a slighly gruff/un-PC character in there just to snub their noses at everyone. Setting it in the 70s/80s is a convenient way of getting away with it (because everyone was sexist then, right!), using a what they maybe perceive as a masucline dominated world(despite two of the main characters being female) or one that perhaps has some quite old fashioned types is another.

This isn't just telly, its slightly dubious BBC PC/modern commentary docu-drama-nonsense telly.

And to adapt a previous comment - you can't polish a turd, no, but you can sh1t on one. It could be a lot worse.

[deposit-it]

Thanks everyone (and HOST) for raising the sexism issues. I have been at times literally sitting on my hands to stop myself blasting away about this in Bonekickers. I'm not sure I can bear to watch anymore.

Truthfully, even the sometimes horrible things we've heard from women's experiences are not what is portrayed within this programme. Not only is the sexism rife, it's the power relationships displayed (it's not peer comments, but the boss, indicating institutionalisation of sexism). Personally, had I seen the bra scene as a teenager I would NEVER have considered that archaeology was a place I'd want to be. We've heard bad stuff, but this is not even the bad side of archaeology. It's a 1960s Barbara Windsor 'Carry On' style of sexism, without a Kenneth Williams and without the men being a bit sad (more worryingly, heroes). I think it will single-handedly reduce female undergraduate applications - we'll just have to wait til next year and see.

We're having a steering committee meeting of the BWA on Monday where I'll be raising this. I'll be proposing we write to the BBC to express our disappointment. If anyone has any comments in particular please email us a womeninarchaeology@hotmail.com - the more the better. If you're furious, tell us and I'll pass it on. Men too please - this doesn't flatter anyone.

[redexile]

Does anyone know how/why Mark Horton stepped down from the Chair in archaeology at Bristol? I am under the impression no official reason was given, although I could be entirely wrong, and would appreciate it if someone could otherwise enlighten me?

"Whoever understands the pottery, understands the site" - Wheeler

[angi]

I too had felt a little guilty at the slating that Mark Horton had received, thinking that his input had been side tracked by the programme makers etc. Now I can happily bitch about this programme to my heart's content!

As I have set the pedant free again..... I hope that Mr. Horton does not deduct marks from his students for poor spelling and grammar as his is bloody attrocious! Attention to detail, sir!

If he'd taken time to look at the caliber of many of the critics, he'd have noticed that there's more than a handful of quite reputable members of our industry who rarely see archaeology from their armchairs commenting on Bonekickers. I have noticed several people on one of the Facebook groups alone!

It's obvious that all industries that have programmes made of their day-to-day jobs will whitter on about the inaccuracies as members-of-the-general-public WILL take the TV version as read, but I can't quite imagine the medical advisor to Casualty pi$$ing off his colleagues like this! OK, we have the 'sci-fi' (please note the inverted commas!) element which they have had a bit of a poor stab at, but the real-life details could very easily be made accurate.

The sexism issue seems to have touched a few nerves: I do not 'do' PC and even in the thirteen years I spent in the building industry before I hopped over into this world I can honestly say that bra remarks are pretty rare and would be greeted with a clout with a well-aimed, toe-tector filled welly!

[angi]

P.S. I don't think the bra scene with the underwire problem was at all sexist! I had to point that out!

[Beardstroker]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

well just when i was feeling that MArk Horton was being unfairly treated.. we get this

http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadm...S=&P=27881

Is there anyone he has not offended yet?

Oh Dear. :face-confused:

It seems underneath that bumbling twittish exterior...lies a bumbling twittish interior.

[gorilla]

From Mark Horton's Wikipedia page...

A recent review of the TV drama Bonekickers, on which Horton is the archaeological consultant, said of him:

"Before the screening, I was chatting to Mark Horton, the archaeology expert from Coast, who acted as consultant for Bonekickers. He was very pleased with the result, and suggested that the series is genuinely groundbreaking. I do frown on anything that gets hyped out of the water like this, but Mark was so enthusiastic (about everything, actually) that it was difficult not to believe. Trouble is he is as mad as forks, genuinely mad as forks, so his enthusiasm was tempered by wibble madness."

The prosecution rests...



I hate every ape I see,
From chimpan-a to chimpanzee,
You'll never make a monkey out of me!

[deposit-it]

quote:

I can honestly say that bra remarks are pretty rare and would be greeted with a clout with a well-aimed, toe-tector filled welly!

Agreed. I think my concern is the girls were told to do this while the professor muttered as he turned away 'I love my job!'. He should have been greeted with said clout, and he wasn't. :face-confused:

Everyone's idea of acceptable behaviour is different, and how you label it is another matter. We have some quotes on our website from the survey if anyone wants to take a look.

http://britishwomenarchaeologists.org.uk

[redexile]

from an interview with the actor who plays 'Dolly':

Was there anyone in particular Hugh based the character on?

He says: ?.....our archaeology advisor Mark Horton was also a great inspiration." Hmmm!

http://bonekickers.com/?p=21


"Whoever understands the pottery, understands the site" - Wheeler

[Paul Belford]

I think this says it all really about the fictitious central character of the series (quotes from the interview cited above):

"You never quite know when he's being serious or when he's not, and I love that about him. He's very serious when it matters, but he likes pushing peoples' buttons, seeing their reactions. Its never malicious, but he'll be provocative to prompt a debate or some sort of reaction. It's a kind of mischievous intellect."

And this is an accurate summary of the real-life person that the character was based on:

"I share the qualities of being six foot two and overweight and liking red wine, but our archaeology advisor Mark Horton was also a great inspiration. He's a very bubbly, glass-half-full person with such a positive outlook on life. He's a poet of his craft who clearly absolutely loves what he does; it was incredibly infectious. In Mark, it comes out like an overgrown prep-school boy who's just discovered conkers; he literally froths at the mouth when he's telling you about some dig or artefact or lecture. But I made Gregory a minor-key version of that..."

All good [u]FUN</u> as archaeology is supposed to be. Booze, sex and adventures. I am sure all of our archaeological careers are a bit like that. Deliberately provoking a reaction - well it has certainly done that amongst the poh-faced on this and other forums!