Government vote on higher education fees

[deadlylampshade]

It will all change come the asteroid

At last I have found something to agree with on this thread.:face-approve:

[GnomeKing]

oh please, don't hold back - what is it you disagree with?
this was a bad move for education?
protest is legitimate, and police reaction over-the-top?
we all fucked unless we do something?

perhaps you and Jack should start a new thread "archaeology after the impact" ?

[deadlylampshade]

On the one hand people on this Forum bemoan the state of archaeology degrees OR they bemoan the fact that the new graduate can't find a job.

Just WHAT is it the protest is really about? A chance to march on London, break windows and show anything but an educated response to a challenge from Government (oh...and terrify a dumb animal by pulling it's rider from it's back - why is that amusing by the way?) or the fact that potential students will be forced to use their own money (or rather their parents') to waste their time doing irrelevant degrees?

As someone has already pointed out the repayment terms are not going to apply to archaeology students due to the pittance they earn...I would have thought it was a reason to support it!

[video=youtube;o_12E1EN6fs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_12E1EN6fs[/video]

[Winders]

Regardless of the debate about tuition fee repayments, what about the issue that all state funding of archaeology at undergrad level is being removed? After all, it looks like the new cap on tuition fees will still not cover the greater cost of teaching archaeology compared to other humanities courses...

[Peterperfect]

[quote=GnomeKing]House of Commons to vote tomorrow on proposed new measures for funding university students, and repayment of those fees.

Just interested in how BAJRites view this.

simple poll - Yes or No - would you vote with or against the government on this issue? Yes

please add comments if you so wish.[/QUOTE

[lacrimosa]

or the fact that potential students will be forced to use their own money (or rather their parents') to waste their time doing irrelevant degrees?

As someone has already pointed out the repayment terms are not going to apply to archaeology students due to the pittance they earn...I would have thought it was a reason to support it!

oh good lord. it strikes me that people have forgotten that students do already pay for their education. This isnt about introducing university fees, its about INCREASING them. I graduated 3 years ago with 10 grands worth of debt, my debt not my parents, from loans to pay for the course and maintenance loans to keep me alive. I worked during those 3 years, and apart from a spell of 3 months when the recession hit have been working ever since. I now owe the student loans people more like 12 grand due to interest as my archaeology wage has paid off ?2 a week (which doesn't cover interest) .

You're right, with archaeology wages we will never be able to pay it all back. So students will have an ever increasing debt of upwards of 30 grand hanging over their heads untill theyre 50??? i don't understand how that is ok. It is a measure being introduced by people who had a free education, grants and the like, who have since forced a world recession, and who now expect new students to pay for it (along with the rest of us volunteering to run everything else)

AND! the whole protest thing. its about bloody TIME people started making a point about what they think/believe in etc in this country again. kinda sick of hearing that the French do it better :p people shouldnt be distracted by the violence of a few over what is quite a heartfelt outpouring for us 'stif upper lip' brits....

[Madweasels]

I too am more shocked by the amount of increase, rather than the concept of students contributing to the cost. I admit, I did get my uni degree for free - though lost my grant due to confusion as to how much I could earn in part-time work (mea culpa) However, I have two children who are doing well enough to be eligible for HE if they chose. To accommodate this, the family had been budgeting for a certain amount to be set aside for their fees/living expenses, plus a modest increase, between now and their earliest entry dates to uni in - 2012 being the earliest. Now, we can forget our plan and have had to revisit the figures. Firstborn now knows that she will have to carry a debt burden for most of her working life if she doesn't get a well-paid job. She is a very capable scientist, and was considering medical subjects. Forget that now - she has downsized her ambitions because 4, 5 or 6 years science courses (likely to be closer to the 9k mark) are off the table - a 50k debt before living expenses is too much to consider at the moment. It saddens me so much to see her realising that her dreams might be fading before she has even started. Her Dad lived his dream - I feel so sad for her and her generation.

[gwyl]

oh...and terrify a dumb animal by pulling it's rider from it's back

but it's okay for horse-riders to charge people
one of the reasons why the French - at any rate - do not use horses is that during the riots of the 20s and 30s the protesters just slashed their hocks
but in the best british tradition their seems to be more concern for donkeys than humans - and those protesting lions in London, like you and me, are governed by donkeys
this is a retrogressive government who are committed to dismantling the state to parish pump politics where the Poor Law is as good as solidarity gets and devil take the hindmost if you're not on ?100grand and to whom we will be expected to doff our caps and tug our forelocks
not too many archaeologists then

[Kel]

what about the issue that all state funding of archaeology at undergrad level is being removed? After all, it looks like the new cap on tuition fees will still not cover the greater cost of teaching archaeology compared to other humanities courses...

Is this actually the case? Archaeology at my uni is classed as a science not a humanity and most of the arch-related undergrad courses are BSc not BA.

[Oxbeast]

madweasels, I hope your daughter doesn;t let it put her off doing medicine, or one of the 'professions allied to medicine' degrees. From what I understand, you can go straight into work, it's well paid, and you can pay off the loan. A 50K debt is managable as long as you have a job with a high enough salary to pay it off. a 15K loan for me has just grown and grown over the last eight years. Doctors in the USA expect to still be paying back their loans when they are 50.

50K of debt for an archaeology degree would be acceptable as long as the terms and conditions are as they are now. It will just get written off after 30 years. But if 75% of graduates are expected to default on their loan, clearly they are going to have to change the conditions.