Is the NVQ worth it?

[cmdr_sven]

Hello All,

I'll try to keep the question brief but i''m not very good at that normally.

I've been digging in commercial archaeology for two years now, working for various units across the country. I don't have a degree in archaeology or a related subject. (unless you count political science!)

I'm very interested in continuing my career but have found that some units won't hire me and others will mark me down in redundancy criteria. I also fear that in terms of promotion opportunity I may reach a bit of an impasse because I don't have a degree.

There is no way in hell I can afford the time or the money to do a degree, so I was looking into the NVQ's.

I want to gauge your opinions on this. Are they worth the money (?1245 for a lvl 3 or ?1750 for the lvl 4)? The level 3 seems a bit basic ( don't run with scissors, pointy end of trowel goes into ground rather than your face ). But the level 4 seems very advanced and almost impossible to attain unless you are working as a PO/PM, which disagrees directly with the blurb pertaining to the lvl 4.

My other problem with the nvq's are how obscure they seem to be. Even according to the IFA's website only 5 people have attained it since 2008! If a perspective employer either hasn't heard of them or doesn't understand the course content then whats the point?

So how would you proceed if the NVQ wasn't an option?

Any opinions greatly welcomed.

[BAJR]

I have my own opinions about them.... which may sound negative, but personally, I would spend money doing specilaist specific stuff.. a survey course, an osteo course... the NVQ may work eventually... but its not worked just now. In fact most trainers when they at last got trained, are now out of date, so have to be retrained, before they can train... <sigh>

I am working with Manchester Uni just now on the Skills Passport... a more fluid and reactive way to gain skills, prove them and then use this passport as a means to employment ... but of course, we have little cash to move forward on this...

I also (and many others of the older lags) have no degree.. and I often say to employers... a degree is only saying you are able to get a degree.. as a field arch.... it say nought! it has an importance, but not in knowing how to excavate a posthole, or survey a field. The NVQ was a good idea that is not - in my opinion worth diddley squat.... an avocational course that is cheap, that is modular, that is recognised... is that so hard?

To answer your question, get skills.... gain proficiency in drawing, in survey in GIS .... prove it and become an asset

[kevin wooldridge]

Does anyone know of any practical short courses (as opposed to giving away ?9000 in tuition fees) that might satisfy David's suggestions of training in drawing, GIS, survey etc..... I have checked the internet for courses such as Total station training but they are coming at ?250-300 per day and I am guessing are more suited to company rather than individual budgets....

[moreno]

Relating to Kevin's post:

I've given (still giving) serious consideration to retraining particularly due to the current financial climate. I've looked into Leica training courses http://www.leica-geosystems.co.uk/en/Lei...hedule.pdf (see page 19 for costs), a tad expensive and generally not geared specifically for archaeologists. Leica does offer tailored training packages (page 3) and a few of the courses may assist one in widening employment opportunities. If there was enough interest, perhaps Leica or a similar company could be contacted and options discuss with a rep to work out a course and a cost specifically tailored to an archaeologists needs? Just a thought!

[kevin wooldridge]

Relating to Kevin's post: .... If there was enough interest, perhaps Leica or a similar company could be contacted and options discuss with a rep to work out a course and a cost specifically tailored to an archaeologists needs? Just a thought!

I totally agree. Leica offer very good courses in undersanding their equipment, but don't necessarily understand the way that the equipment is used (abused!) by archaeologists....for example they don't understand why we want to record polygons whilst most surveyors are happy with points and lines!! But what would make such a course really useful would be if it were also combined with an introduction to ArcGIS or Intrasis or something similar......Survey for Archaeological Ends.... all at a reasonable price of course.

[Stephen Jack]

If you set out what you require for Archaeology surveying I could draw up a plan, perhaps you could even cover autonomous survey vehichicles, my pet project. In a past life I did once run a survey office.

[moreno]

I totally agree. Leica offer very good courses in undersanding their equipment, but don't necessarily understand the way that the equipment is used (abused!) by archaeologists....for example they don't understand why we want to record polygons whilst most surveyors are happy with points and lines!! But what would make such a course really useful would be if it were also combined with an introduction to ArcGIS or Intrasis or something similar......Survey for Archaeological Ends.... all at a reasonable price of course.

Early on being involved with research projects experimenting with GPS, GIS and TPS (total stations) recording methods (see http://anthro.ucsd.edu/~tlevy/Archaeolog...202001.pdf particularly pages 23-29), I was quite keen to make commercial use of it. I began looking at training courses (as CPD) without necessarily having to enroll in a degree program (i.e. Birmingham Uni) to obtain the necessary skills.

I picked up from a conversation I had with a rep, that they didn't quite understand the archaeological approach and the application of their equipment. It's been a few years so things may have changed since then. But at the time, I arranged a meeting with a Leica rep, had a demonstration of some of their equipment mapping a side road to where I used to live. The equipment was top notch but at the time there was a lack of understanding when explaining my purposes. The chap was a rep, whose job (granted) is to make sales. Anything more specific he made reference to the Milton Keynes training facility. That's pretty much where I picked up on researching into prices and courses etc. Being an individual and not a company (as pointed out in Kevin's post) it was way to pricey for my requirements. The software package was a version of Geo Office and contained software that I would have to pay for and never ever use. Never having used it, I can't really comment on what the learning curve is. When speaking to a rep this issue would have to be raised to see what sort of training could be provided. It might be that training in ArcGIS or Intrasis or other user friendly data transcription software aimed toward the needs at the user end might have to be taken up separately. ArcGis training is also quite expensive. For me, affordability has always been an essential issue.

[moreno]

Not a huge fan of the NVQ. Posted under a different thread, the NVQ was discussed. Others (myself included) made comments regarding the NVQ. cmdr sven if it's still available you might want to have a read.

[BAJR]

Survey for Archaeological Ends.... all at a reasonable price of course.

AS it happens I am doing just such a course... survey for what you need.... Grid and site layout... Topo survey.... etc... all at reasonable prices. :face-kiss:

[cmdr_sven]

Thanks for the reply guys, I'll check the other thread out.

I've essentially come to the same conclusions really, the NVQ seems a great idea if widely adopted but otherwise a bit useless.

I also have similar issues as Kevin RE: cost. I'd love to go and do some survey courses, GIS and that kind of thing (especially being a bit of a geek!) but personally I can't afford to do it. Though it may be worth saving up the pennies in the long run.

Being floating staff also means that training will never be invested in me so CPD is a myth. Oh well, I'll stick to digging holes and playing the lottery.