The Herit Age

[Sith]

Our commenter is a paramedic working the busy nightshift in one of the roughest and most dangerous inner cities in the country. And did I mention the voluntary work at the orphanage…?

Bully for him then because he is one of the VERY few people who can claim to be essential.

Tricky one, this. There are some jobs such as nursing, teaching or farming that can clearly be considered to occupy the moral high ground, in that they're both socially useful and poorly paid. Similarly doctors, though it's less clear-cut as they can earn huge amounts, meaning that there are probably at least some practitioners who entered the profession on the basis that it'd provide them with a good living. There are other jobs such as plumbers and refuse collectors, without whom society couldn't function - I know it's a crude comparison, but if all the archaeologists in the country went on strike, it's doubtful the public would notice, but if all the binmen (bin persons?) stopped work, we'd be drowning in rubbish in a week.

An interesting collection but I would venture to point out that nurses and teachers are generally better paid than archaeologists, the latter in particular to an level that should preclude them from complaining about their lot. Don't get me started on doctors - GPs earn an average of between ?50,000 and ?80,000 a year basic. Similarly, I don’t know many poor plumbers.

This whole thing is getting close to making me weep as a stark example of how society has become fixated with the cost of everything but appreciates the VALUE of nothing.

[Marcus Brody]

This whole thing is getting close to making me weep as a stark example of how society has become fixated with the cost of everything but appreciates the VALUE of nothing.

But that's the point I was trying to make. My comments in relation to nurses, teachers, plumbers and binmen were in terms of their value to society as a whole, not in terms of how much they get paid. My argument was basically that groups such as these undertake work that has some social benefit, whether this is in terms of healing the sick, educating the young, cleaning up rubbish or ensuring sanitary living conditions. Therefore they could have a claim to provide an important social function. What they actually get paid in terms of pounds, shillings and pence is not the issue. If you go down that route, that monetary remuneration is the only assessment of value, then I'd agree that it doesn't look good for archaeology. I was trying to get at the idea that there are jobs that are of social utility, beyond a simply totting-up of who earns what, and that to an extent that it's possible to get an idea of what a society values by looking at the legislation it employs. By this measure, the fact that archaeology is part of law or planning guidance can be taken as an indication that it's an area that the wider society considers to have some value beyond money alone (though I'd agree that it would be better if this were recognized in the form of higher wages!)

[Boxoffrogs]

Well I hope they get paid in Pounds and Pence..shillings somewhat date us there!

One presumes the writer has never walked through a museum or watched a historical film or read any 'olde' works of fiction Dickens, Bronte et al, that he has no interest in Shakespeare etc. Archaeology is of the past as are they. Why should every thing need to have a 'use'. I thought we had climbed out of the trees some time ago and in so doing took an interest in our collective past. What’s the use of archaeology? ask him to shout that out at the next IFA shin dig, sorry conference....

[deadlylampshade]

Serious point though. Obviously we have the moral high ground when it comes to justifying our existence to bankers or traffic wardens, but is there a hierarchy of honourable jobs, and if so where do we factor?

I don't think anyone can take the moral high ground on these kinds of relatively fatuous debates.

I would like to suggest, however, that the hierarchy of honourable jobs starts and ends with vocational jobs. Everything else is potentially immoral (or do I mean amoral? Hmm...).

What we should be deciding is whether archaeolgy is vocational or not. And I would say it is if only because all the other vocational jobs I can think of have relatively crap wages as they are all under valued and taken for granted by an undeserving public who don't value them whilst they have them and then complain vociferously when they are lost (whislt doing flap all to "save" them).

[troll]

Should the commentators views be anywhere near representative of the public at large then we only have ourselves to blame. I`ve banged on for years about the perceived "value" of archaeology and how to raise the public perception of the same. Collectively-we have failed. Archaeology to the public en masse is simply titivation and entertainment. I wholeheartedly agree with subscribers above on many of the points raised but not one of us has accepted that collectively-we have done very little to confront the negative perceptions that abound out there.

I was lucky enough to have had some guests come over from Australia last week-it was their first time in the UK and they loved it. They went off on the grand tour with a vengeance-everything from changing the guard at Windsor to Stonehenge, Avebury, Winchester and God only knows how many other places. Visitors come to the UK primarily to see the sites that to them-characterise who we are. Not one of the places on their itinary was a hospital, a doctors surgery, a solicitors, a stockbrokers or an Asda. I can`t even begin to put a monetary value on the income from foreign visitors (anyone?) but can imagine that it`s huge. Archaeology makes money in the wider economic landscape and for that-we really don`t need to defend ourselves.

The commentator does however have a very important point: What does archaeology do for the man in the street who works for a living? (paraphrased). That is a question that we do need to consider. Elsewhere on this forum, we have discussed the potential of archaeology as a social asset and the role it could play in citizenship and community relations. Our failure to communicate efficiently with the public and with few exceptions-leave that to media interpretation- has meant that the public are largely ignorant of what archaeology actually is and what it can do for them. Politicians are quite adept at waving flags (that they don`t understand) and banging on about our "great pride in our heritage" when it suits them. Some sections of society wave flags representing an Middle -Eastern borne hermit from a Turkish island and are violently proud of being "English". This despite the fact that any Anglo-Saxon blood in the UK is only represented by 6% of maternal DNA. This despite the fact that roughly speaking, since the end of the last ice age, we have hailed from the Black Sea or the Basque region. We have demonstrably failed as a profession to integrate archaeology into mainstream public life. Stop anyone on the street and ask them about the origins of their home town. Ask them about their ancestors. Ask them how society worked in the past and how it has moulded them today. Total silence......mystified.

Archaeology has the potential to be of enormous value to society in so many ways-where is our pro-active think tank on this? Or is Time Team enough?

[Boxoffrogs]

I notice, with some sadness, that we are once more restricted to the same voices on pretty much every thread. This is highly indicative of the malaise of rampant inaction that flows through the profession.

Archaeology started its downward spiral in public perception just after Lord Caernarvon closed the door of king Tuts morgue. We have never regained that glory since, OK Sutton Hoo got close, but it has never been sustained. The reality is people are not educated to value archaeology or even their past nowadays. I grew up in the last wave of the Past being taught as important to know. I had inspired history teachers in a small village in deepest Gloucestershire, I moved to a larger town school where my past was no longer considered important, but just as another subject. Archaeology is one of the few subjects that can be referred to in every other subject taught. Is it? Is it hellers like!

We need to get the profile of our subject up higher yes, but we also need it to be treated with some respect and our 'discoveries' used at schools and colleges across the curriculum. Dream on, I know!

[P Prentice]

ooh la la

so you wont buy the culture angle mr dirt

how about

the indisputably lucrative heritage market is based on millions spending billions in order to experience an historic environment that is understood through the lens of historical perspective. archaeology widens and deepens historical perspective and thus promulgates understanding of the historic environment. archaeologists are therefore essential to the ever-growing heritage market.

[troll]

I see where you are coming from Frogs but that`s not entirely fair. The `regulars` on here are largely people who have ten spare minutes in their day or who dive on here after dinner. Having seen huge numbers of subscribers on here come and go after only a few short months-the people who you see as "the same voices on pretty much every thread" are largely those who have stayed around and are lucky enough to have ten spare minutes. One of the major drawbacks in archaeology is the nature of our distribution across a wide area and through a multi-facetted industry. It`s nigh on impossible to mobilise such a herd in any-let alone one direction. Like herding cats really! I don`t subscribe to the view that apathy reigns supreme but I do subscribe to the view that now perhaps more than ever-someone somewhere needs to stand up. Arguably, a goodly few are already doing just that-numbers of well-established bodies are waking up to the need. I feel that we are in desperate need of a good and well-orchestrated media flurry and a good old fashioned dose of " beat the MP with a stick". Not to mention the lobbying of MEP`s.:face-approve:

[troll]

P Prentice is hereby designated as the writer of covering letters and the tidyer of c.v`s. Damn that`s good! How I hate you!

[Boxoffrogs]

Troll, I like to shake trees, just to see what falls out....