FAME ? we?re going to dig forever?

[deadlylampshade]

Inspired by Moreno's post above..."just throwing something out" - GOOD IDEA!!!

I think a radical look at why we archive, what we archive and for how long could be a quicker way to reduce the PHENOMENAL footprint someone - be it "polluter" or county museum - is going to have to take on.

Do we really need to keep ALL of it? Couldn't some of it be used to generate income for the museums?

I still have the sherd of Roman pot I bought when I was a nipper on a school trip to the Wall...genius idea and worth SO much more than the usual tat sold in museum shops. (Oh, and it isn't BB1 or BB2 either )

[monty]

really? have you been inside a repository recently?

and the guidances you cite, apart from being the most borng documents in archaeology and written on a different planet, without regard to the fact that there is nowhere to put this crap

Boring or not ....................this is NOT worthless crap !!!!! GET REAL MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps I mean boring and not borng !

[deadlylampshade]

Suddenly had visions of a scary Archivist Borg... (or Borng } )
[ATTACH=CONFIG]918[/ATTACH]

[Wax]

Wow!!!!!! now that is the model to follow, a Borg archive. Instantly accessible to all and stored as a data base with copies at hub points. "resistance is futile you will be assimilated"}

[TAS]

My 2 penneths worth is that quite often Archaeologists and Museum staff are partly to blame for the Archive problems, primarily because of their inherent academic nature or lack of experience in logistics. I know its a big brush Im tarring with, but having some insight into both museum archives and archaeology archives, it would seem to me that other than the most obvious of problems (lack of funding, lack of space and shear collection size) the problem is not having people who are experienced enough in dealing with these logistical problems and thus clearing the hurdle to archive bliss. In a perfect world, if private contractors could be hired in to archive what is often quite frankly a mess of cardboard boxes and associated files, then this would in turn free up the Archaeologists and Museum staff to concentrate on processing their work-loads so that a back-log of work doesn't begin. It makes business sense - and to those museums who have done this, taking the plunge has proved to be worthwhile.

As a little example of why I feel that sometimes the staff are just as equally to blame; having spent time in one London Museum, I learned that it took a small team over a year to process 3 million artifacts, most of which they did not know they even had (this I am told is common) - however efficiency was only achieved after a change of staff to guys who had prior experience in other commercial/civil service industries, who understood how to quickly and efficiently secure items and log them for storage in an appropriate mannor. Now the only problem that was left was the storage conditions, and unfortunately no amount of expertise can turn a cardboard box into a hermetically sealed plastic box (a money factor), but nevertheless the crew used their ingenuity to make the best out of what really was a bad situation. And all of a sudden a warehouse full of boxes, some being stored inside silly places like tanks, was transformed into an orderly archive of Medieval (A-Z), Crimea (A-Z), Boer (A-Z), WW1 (A-Z) and so on. With a digital database of the typoligised artifacts and their location - so that if you were looking for a specific item, you could not only locate the item in storage, but could read up on the description of it. The best one though, was being able to assign collections to the database, so that if you were looking for a specific character, you could see all the associated items the museum had within its collection, and whether any were on loan to other museums. Ahhh I miss those days.

[Madweasels]

...and I say again. We have been here before. Idea followed by idea followed by idea. Loads of them And the common denominator? Money. Each and everyone of them needs funding - and there is none around. Yes, try to sell scraps - but how do you manage such a scheme (staff and storage space). Yes, dispose of the bulk duplicates (after sampling) but who is going to pay for the specialists to do it and the skips to take it away. Yes, get a large central store (old hangar) for an entire region - but who pays the utilities bills, security - not least the shelving and logistics getting the stuff into there.

This entire 'crisis' has been caused by our very own industry - in all senses of the word. It is of all our own making - not just the LA curators, the museums, the archaeologists - but all of us in this fine industry and by our own industry in the field. And why? Because no one, quite frankly, has been willing or identified to take responsibility for it. And that is because of the ridiculous property law in this country that makes everything that is animal, mineral or vegetable, bar some exceptions (treasure and items whose owner can be identified - livestock for example), that is found on one's land is your very own property. Everything. We go on and on about how it it everyone's heritage, but the law says it BELONGS to the landowner, and we set up groups and forums to deliberate how archiving should be done, but unless we can get a single organisation or institution who is willing to accept responsibility for it, and to whom title can be transferred, PLUS a shed load of dosh in perpetuity then nothing, absolutely nothing is ever going to happen. Changing the law would help for future archives but this couldn't be applied retrospectively. That would amount to a nationalisation or state requisition, which however much the more left of centre of us here might prefer is never going to happen.

And while I am here venting. Just when will you commercial units stop moaning at the museums curators and start sending invoices to Local Authorities insisting that they pay rent for the storage of this stuff in your stores? And if they don't pay after 30 days, or 60 or whatever, take them to court!!! Start action to remind the LA's that, according to all the guidance, this stuff is supposed to end up in their manors, not the stores of the commercial units. The LAs are the ultimate recipients and it is to their museums (whether they exist or not - the guidance makes no real distinction) that title and long term care is transferred. Even if they do cough up in lieu of building museums to store the stuff, at least the commercial units's stores will then be paying for themselves, and perhaps the lovely storage element of the overheads they charge the next client could be put to better use. I would suggest outreach officers (as the Southport Group would like) or, perhaps more preferable to many in this groups, upping the day rates of their field staff and seeing to it that their salaries get topped up. Hey, maybe even use it for pensions. OK, sorry there - I got carried away.....

Just realised, if the units have any potential for lowering the overhead they will take it to undercut their opposition. Lovely downward economic spiral in action.

[deadlylampshade]

That's a very pertinent rant if I may say so Madweasels!:face-approve:

[Marcus Brody]

And that is because of the ridiculous property law in this country that makes everything that is animal, mineral or vegetable, bar some exceptions (treasure and items whose owner can be identified - livestock for example), that is found on one's land is your very own property. Everything. We go on and on about how it it everyone's heritage, but the law says it BELONGS to the landowner.

Not in Scotland, it doesn't.

[BAJR]

Aye... thats the way of it. and as one of the people who sits on teh SAFAP group who values and decides on EVERYTHING that is found... don't I know it.

We do however utilise discretion ie most of it is dealt with by the HUGE Treasure Trove unit (ie Stuart) and returned.

So the law up here says... it belongs to the queen until we say so thanks Maam (and Marcus)

Though that said, yes it was a good rant Weasal.. though only valid in Wales and England

[Madweasels]

...I am grateful to my Honourable Friend in Scotland - the Property Laws are different north of the border where, if I am correct, archaeological material at least belongs to the Crown. Don't know about the odd, wandering sheep though.