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Quote:Perhaps something else is needed? A privately produced glossy magazine with nice articles, pictures perhaps? Any takers?
Welcome to Past Horizons with upwards of 5-10,000 readers. (you see we don't just flog trowels!)
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com
would be more if more archaeologists read it 
And for commercial glossy and sexy.. try these (all very popular taking thousands of reads)
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...erspective
(Wessex) Submerged prehistory off Scotland: a development-led perspective
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...f-the-past
(Oxford Arch North) Roman settlement reconstruction provides a picture of the past
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...osterfield
(Mike Griffiths & Associates Ltd) 7000 years of Nosterfield - the Thornborough Henges
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...roman-fort
(Northern Archaeological Associates) Child’s footprints found beside a Roman Fort
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...say-orkney
(ORCA) Excavations at Banks Chambered Tomb, South Ronaldsay, Orkney
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...estershire
(Cotswold Archaeology) Early Roman site found in Gloucestershire near Stroud
I could go on... and that is just the UK ones! over 500 articles in the last 9 months!
and more coming from Network Archaeology, CFA, AOC, and more and more.
Why? because as you all say, it is needed to show what we do. and what we do can be amazing. I thank you ... now get reading! and please please please... if you have a story... get in touch... one thing you can be certain of is that the article get BIG coverage and is edited by people that are field archs as well. so no dodgy edits!
AS you aslo say, it is not that some volunteer groups could not do a good job, but they can't commit to 5 days a week for teh next 6 weeks ? :face-huh:
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BAJR Wrote:Welcome to Past Horizons with upwards of 5-10,000 readers. (you see we don't just flog trowels!)
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com
would be more if more archaeologists read it
And for commercial glossy and sexy.. try these (all very popular taking thousands of reads)
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...erspective
(Wessex) Submerged prehistory off Scotland: a development-led perspective
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...f-the-past
(Oxford Arch North) Roman settlement reconstruction provides a picture of the past
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...osterfield
(Mike Griffiths & Associates Ltd) 7000 years of Nosterfield - the Thornborough Henges
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...roman-fort
(Northern Archaeological Associates) Child’s footprints found beside a Roman Fort
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...say-orkney
(ORCA) Excavations at Banks Chambered Tomb, South Ronaldsay, Orkney
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...estershire
(Cotswold Archaeology) Early Roman site found in Gloucestershire near Stroud
I could go on... and that is just the UK ones! over 500 articles in the last 9 months!
and more coming from Network Archaeology, CFA, AOC, and more and more.
Why? because as you all say, it is needed to show what we do. and what we do can be amazing. I thank you ... now get reading! and please please please... if you have a story... get in touch... one thing you can be certain of is that the article get BIG coverage and is edited by people that are field archs as well. so no dodgy edits!
AS you aslo say, it is not that some volunteer groups could not do a good job, but they can't commit to 5 days a week for teh next 6 weeks ? :face-huh:
Ahem, apologies for the oversight. Although I was meaning something that specifically covered only work carried out through development funded work, rather than interspersed with such a vast array of topics. Obviously Past Horizons is covering much of this pretty well, it would be interesting to know who was reading it rather than just the numbers. I doubt a magazine including just commercial work would be able to generate enough content though. As for confidentiality - it wouldn't need to be so bang up to date that that would be a problem and as Past Horizons demonstrates it can be done.
As for volunteers committing to 5 days a week for 6 weeks? Some maybe could, retired and still fit enough? Besides, perhaps for the larger projects it would remain impractical but for smaller ones?
The issue perhaps with all of this is that there must now be plenty of people in archaeology who have worked their entire professional lives under PPG or similar, up to 20 years in some cases. Those people perhaps have every reason to be worried at they present situation, which looks to be heading back to a world they don't understand, have no experience in, and the prospects are pretty worrying. (If I see that pinched for a film pitch I'm claiming copyright - Gravelly Voice: 'They were headed back to a world they didn't understand and had no experience in and it was pretty worrying' nominated for 2 oscars!) They also don't have the benefit of the strangely rose-tinted spectacles that others have.
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P Prentice Wrote:marcus why should archaeology be any different to any other industry where amateurs dabble alongside professionals and the perception that we do it as a hobby is exaserpated by us settling for peanuts and not bothering to tell anybody why what we found is interesting in an interesting way
I can't really think of any other industries where this happens. I suppose you could say that DIY housebuilding is to the construction industry as the archaeology society is to commercial contractors, but even there the situation isn't exactly analogous, in that while the DIY housebuilder may work alongside professional builders, it's the DIY housebuilder who's in charge as it's their house that's being built. Certainly, when I deal with developers, the fact that archaeologists are paid so much less that most other so-called professions on a construction site doesn't help - when I turn up to a meeting with surveyors and site agents and park my crappy little car at the end of a row of gleaming Range Rovers or BMWs, it probably doesn't give them the impression that I'm representing a serious profession. However, I also don't necessarily accept that money can be taken as the sole measure of a profession.
You know Marcus. He once got lost in his own museum
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No worries RedEarth. knowing what people like and want. and what people read. it never ceases to amaze us. the most fascinating story of archaeology and nobody bothers to read it. however a story about a beetle wing dress... whoo hoo over 20,000 reads? go figure. (good story though)
Past Horizons is perhaps the best placed outlet for commercial stories. fast paced, accurate and up to date. no waiting, and the ability to utilise new media such as google maps, videos, sound clips, etc.
Thos of us who remember pre PPG actually have some good memories and bad ones. but we had to change and live with the new system... things change... it is how you deal with it that matters.
Fighting against teh spectre of volunteer archaeologists taking all the jobs... or the reality of cuts in HERs, Museums and Council Archaeology Services. and of cllr Meltons --- is he a vanguard of future thought?
I turn up in my Nissan Patrol... it seems to be what they expect
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Dinosaur Wrote:Before PPG came MSC, before MSC came DoE/SDD, before DoE....etc etc....we had 20 plus years where central government paid for most archaeology in Britain, one way or another, and of course the Ministry of Works employed archaeologists back unto the dawn of time...ah, happy days....has only really gone tits-up since developers have recently had to stick their hands in their pockets to keep us employed 
another big pile of dinosaur shite
before ppg 16 the amount of work undertaken was trivial compared to the last 20 years and most of it has never been published. most of the fieldwork was done by a very few poorly paid archaeologists or well-paid academics assisted either by volunteers, students, school children or sometimes prisoners on day release.
they were not halcyon days either for diggers or for the archaeology
we shouldn't mistake this smug self agrandisment for anything else from vested interests intent on using this forum to belittle the aspirations of any archaeologists
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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Wax Wrote:How about a glossy mag financed by the big bad developers in whose names we do commercial archaeology? Ooh whoops there goes the confidentiality clause. 
The commercial archaeologists have their hands tied and are gagged by the nature of the commercial world in which they work. One of the many reasons why it is not the place for the amateur.
There will either be developer driven archaeology or development free of archaeology with the occasional amateur rescue dig. That is what I see as the heart of the matter which the public and the media do not understand. Community archaeology is a very separate animal which is being used as a smoke screen.
commercial archaeologists hands are not tied and we are not gagged by developers at all. we dont produce glossy stuff for citizens because hitherto now we were not required to. by placing an emphasis on explaining and interpretation, pps5 and hopefully nppf, hopefully this lacuna will be redressed
a little less whinging and a lot more explaining is required and the only smoke screen i can see is the one fanned by the vested interests of contracting who are intent on maintaining a closed shop of under represented poorly paid and over exploited diggers with no prospects of a career or getting anywhere near their own jobs
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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22nd July 2011, 06:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 22nd July 2011, 08:37 PM by Wax.)
So PP what do you see as the answer? Bearing in mind the constraints of the current commercial system. And whether you like it or not there are constraints. You are very quick to jump at and criticises the rest of us for whinging and not doing enough explaining. I for one give a lot of my time to volunteer archaeology doing a great deal of explaining and am very careful what jobs I take on. Beautiful though PPS 5 is it is likely to quickly pass away un mourned by anybody except archaeologists .
You quite obviously have all the answers please do us the honour of sharing them with us .
By the way I am quite serious as I am always willing to learn from those who obviously know so much more than I do
Now I may be wrong but I had read Dinosaur's last post as being firmly tongue in cheek and heavily ironic ( but what do I know)
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P Prentice Wrote:another big pile of dinosaur shite
before ppg 16 the amount of work undertaken was trivial compared to the last 20 years and most of it has never been published. most of the fieldwork was done by a very few poorly paid archaeologists or well-paid academics assisted either by volunteers, students, school children or sometimes prisoners on day release.
they were not halcyon days either for diggers or for the archaeology
we shouldn't mistake this smug self agrandisment for anything else from vested interests intent on using this forum to belittle the aspirations of any archaeologists
Well some of us enjoyed it!
Actually an awful lot of stuff from 'the good old days' was published. otherwise you'd have been rather short of stuff to read at Uni! Off the top of my head recent DoE/MSC sites published include the Raunds monographs, Worcester Deansway (although that was part developer-funded to be fair), West Heslerton, Piercebridge, Catterick etc etc, so the stuff's still seeping out at a fairly steady rate, I bet a lower percentage of commercial stuff has been adequately published to a reasonable academic standard, some of the commercial 'publications' I've seen have been bl**dy awful!
BAJR - you're right, those who adapt seem to survive :face-approve:
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Wax Wrote:Now I may be wrong but I had read Dinosaur's last post as being firmly tongue in cheek and heavily ironic ( but what do I know)
Actually was merely trying to educate the younger contributors with some historical background to their profession, but seem to have successfully (inadvertantly?) upset a few people, so double value } - some people on here are really so.....
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24th July 2011, 08:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 24th July 2011, 08:41 PM by Wax.)
Hi Dino
I think I need to chill a bit as do some others on this thread. There was good archaeology and bad in the past much as there is now. As you and BAJR say adapt to survive. History lessons are good and we could all do with understanding a little of how the profession got to where it is to day. I am off to enjoy myself leisurely digging holes in some bit of landscape in good company:face-kiss:
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