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2nd September 2011, 11:17 AM
Dinosaur Wrote:Have you been on any university training digs recently? People who have only ever gone on site for 3 weeks each year inflicting the same on the poor next generation....no wonder we usually have to start again pretty much from scratch.....
....and paranoia on here tends to run to people responding insultingly to posts for which there is no evidence that they were addressed to them in the first place.....still waiting for Unit's contribution though....
yep - i have recently been on a training excavation which was undertaken to the highest standards using sampling strategies which no mounty could ever get past a consultant!! also many uni units can train to professional standards
i have also the misfortune to witness horrendously cavalier excavation by professional units intent on making a profit
and as far as paranoia goes .......responding insultingly .......maybe i should patronise more and end with a :face-stir:
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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2nd September 2011, 11:26 AM
troll Wrote:the current level of professional standards in archaeology as an industry is at best variable and at worst, piss poor.
Pseudo-legislation that is held up as adequate by many is simply ambiguous and open to often wild interpretation.
In my view, tangible change will only ever come about when cultural heritage is enshrined in British Statute Law in clear and unambiguous terms.
Professionals involved in the industry can then be held to account
scuse the parphrasing from your cogent plea: professionals might more easily be held to account with chartered status which would also make it easier to create a suitable law to replace the currently derisory legislation
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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2nd September 2011, 11:58 AM
and round and round we go... troll is right we all need to take responsibility for our own professionalism and therefore stop the rest of the world thinking that we "do this for the love of it". and monty.. standards start with respect. please respect the rest of us and take your gripe, what ever it may be, to whomever it concerns. shouting in the wind leaves you unheard and it's getting very tiresome, not to mention childish. bickering amongst ourselves is not going to make us any the more accepted by the rest of the professional world. i take my work seriously, when i get it, and am fed up to the back teeth of the hangers on who don't. it's time for us all to take responsibility and get our acts together. the first step is to agree on the first step. (if that makes sense) and go from there... phew!!!
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2nd September 2011, 02:07 PM
Very much agree with Troll et al in that standards, professionalism etc. are the reponsisbilty of all - actually contractrually and legally as well as morally, and I said as much earlier up the thread. I do not agree however that legislation, however much I agree that it is necessary, would inevitably hold everyone to account. There would still need to be a mechanism to enforce those standards and laws, and the problem is that unlike construction there is no commercial advantage (to clients)in maintaining those standards.
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2nd September 2011, 03:53 PM
All this talk about standards reminds me of something I read by Plutarch- "All Greeks know what is right-but only the Spartans do it"
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2nd September 2011, 03:59 PM
Dirty Dave Lincoln Wrote:All this talk about standards reminds me of something I read by Plutarch- "All Greeks know what is right-but only the Spartans do it"
aye - a few vices are sufficient to darken many virtues
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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2nd September 2011, 08:40 PM
it some ways it is not so difficult - we should be lead by logical methods of investigation, data collection and synthesis, based on the best modern technology has to offer, and accountable to verifiable processes of research.
demanding this is a first step, and a universally applicable one.
just what is it that stops this from being Commercial Dogma?
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2nd September 2011, 08:43 PM
Some people and standards are like some horses and water!
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5th September 2011, 08:08 AM
GnomeKing Wrote:just what is it that stops this from being Commercial Dogma?
Probably because some contractors and consultants believe that no one will pay for all it enatils (or at least that they wouldn't win a ny work).
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of Tony Robinson.
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6th September 2011, 07:14 PM
P Prentice Wrote:yep - i have recently been on a training excavation which was undertaken to the highest standards using sampling strategies which no mounty could ever get past a consultant!! also many uni units can train to professional standards
i have also the misfortune to witness horrendously cavalier excavation by professional units intent on making a profit
and as far as paranoia goes .......responding insultingly .......maybe i should patronise more and end with a :face-stir:
That's the spirit!
From my distant experience of university training digs, and talking to colleagues who have worked on some more recently, you've been lucky! - but presumably uni training digs range in standard from piss-poor to excellent, the same way as commercial work. How many unis have units? -precious few! The rest still largely rely on people who generally dig once a year, or have to hire in supervisors etc to cover the director/uni staff's 'shortcomings' (which is why I know commercial workforce who've worked on them)? :face-stir: (to keep you happy)
