IfA Now have a policy on Self Employment

[Martin Locock]

IfA does offer members 30 minutes of free legal advice http://www.archaeologists.net/membership/legal

[Kajemby]

Then they aren't really making the most of being self-employed then, are they? I actually did use to make the most of weekend/bank holiday working whenever available, and Xmas day is actually a very good work day, no danger of being distracted by anything on TV for a start! And none of that nonsense about only being allowed to work a 40hr week.

That would be fine, if the company we both know you work for actually gave the option for SE staff to set their own hours, which we both know they don't. Don't get me wrong, they were good to work for, but lets not kid ourselves that SE staff can dictate what hours or what days they work there, as they cannot. That is dictated in the contract that is sent out before work starts.

[Martin Locock]

Could you post the terms of this contract - it doesn't sound like SE.

[RedEarth]

It would be interesting to know what form of 'contract' is being issued to self-employed staff, because surely that very term contradicts their self-employed status. I should surely be the other way round - the self-employed issuing a contract stating what they will do and what it will cost. I would use the test of considering what would happen if you were getting someone to carry out work on your house - do you issue the roofer/plumber/builder a contract saying what their hours are, how much they will be paid, whether they 'take advantage' of working weekends and Chistmas day (Christ almighty, what sort of self-employed 'contract' are you on where that is even an option, has the world gone mad!)

The whole thing shows what a mess employment conditions often are in archaeology but the IfA's guidance doesn't help very much - they are in a constant dilemma: it 'does not have a remit to dictate how its members should carry out their business. However it does have a role in ensuring that members and Registered Organisations work to recognised standards and in a manner which does not contravene the IfA Code of conduct or IfA Standards and guidance', which kind of sounds like a contradiction. It was ever thus...

[Martin Locock]

Technically a contract can be drawn up by either party, but like Red Earth I get the impression that standard contracts are being issued and not open to amendment. I hope IfA and HMRC take a keen interest in a contractor who uses a lot of SE staff.

[Wax]

So does the IFA have registered organisations who are breaking the law? If so why the hell are they still registered?

[BAJR]

the trouble for the IfA are the ones not "in" the fold. then it comes down to me, and attempts to enforce ethics. not exactly as easy as it sounds. as an SE can charge what they want. Job? is that all? oh well... better than nothing!!

It is a shame that there are so many people who find themselves in this position. I know quite a few and strongly recommend that rates should represent status. But there are always those that will take the job.

I say it again. IF BAJR and the IfA worked together on this, then it may be possible. But like it or not it needs both.

[RedEarth]

Technically a contract can be drawn up by either party, but like Red Earth I get the impression that standard contracts are being issued and not open to amendment. I hope IfA and HMRC take a keen interest in a contractor who uses a lot of SE staff.

Quite right, but how many contracts are being drawn up by either party? Do those working as 'self-employed' realise how much control they have, or rather should have, over their employment situation? If I didn't need to work it would be good fun to take up one of these 'self-employed' job ads and then cause as much trouble as possible before leaving with no notice, as would be my right!

[Jack]

Technically a contract can be drawn up by either party, but like Red Earth I get the impression that standard contracts are being issued and not open to amendment. I hope IfA and HMRC take a keen interest in a contractor who uses a lot of SE staff.

Yep they do.

Also I'm not sure people (maybe me too) understand where the issues surrounding 'can't tell me what to do coz I'm self employed' and 'standard contracts' come from.
From experience I've seen all sub-contracted digging companies (on big construction projects) being told to follow the over-riding rules of the project (under the constraints of CDM regulations)also some projects have set hours on site/ Health and Safety rules always have to be follwed and stick to they all sign contracts. Some were also on daily rates rather than lump sum for the job. Lots of them got told how to do what task they were doing by the engineers and managers of the company that hired them etc. etc......

Its a falicy that a self-employed subby has special powers of freedom.

[RedEarth]

Yep they do.

Also I'm not sure people (maybe me too) understand where the issues surrounding 'can't tell me what to do coz I'm self employed' and 'standard contracts' come from.
From experience I've seen all sub-contracted digging companies (on big construction projects) being told to follow the over-riding rules of the project (under the constraints of CDM regulations)also some projects have set hours on site/ Health and Safety rules always have to be follwed and stick to they all sign contracts. Some were also on daily rates rather than lump sum for the job. Lots of them got told how to do what task they were doing by the engineers and managers of the company that hired them etc. etc......

Its a falicy that a self-employed subby has special powers of freedom.

There's a world of difference between a company taken on to carry out work as a sub-contractor and an individual 'self-employed' archaeologist, which is what this seemed to be really about.

The company is of course going to agree to some things as part of their contract, in order to fit in with how the site is being run if nothing else - no point saying you'll all get there and start work at 7am if it's not accessible until 8 after all! Have you really seen archaeologists being told 'how to do what task they were doing'? That sounds a little unlikely as presumably the 'engineers and managers' wouldn't have a clue!

A self-employed individual can do whatever they like, by definition, especially they don't really have any real agreement with their employer. Obviously it is in their interests to do what is expected as they might find employment opportunities disappearing very quickly.

I suspect that only self-employed 'subbys' in archaeology have no special powers of freedom, although it does seem to be a trend in other professions to make people 'self-employed'.