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10th July 2012, 01:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 10th July 2012, 04:12 PM by CARTOON REALITY.)
'it was their custom to send their attendants about noon with whatever they had killed in the mornings hunt to an appointed hill, to kindle raging fires thereon, and put in them a large number of stones; and to dig two pits in the yellow clay of the moorland, and put some meat on spits to roast before the fire: and then to bind another portion of it with grasses in bundles. And set it to boil in the larger of the two pits, and keep plying with stones that were in the fire, making them seethe often until they were cooked. And these fires were so large that their sites are seen today in Ireland burnt to blackness and these sites are called filacht fian by the peasantry meaning cooking places.'
Just another interesting detail of pits in pairs. Recorded by Geoffrey Keating's in the early 17th century. The original source for this passage now sadly lost.
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Sorry - left out the next paragraph relating to the second pit.
'As to the Fian, when they asssembled on the hill on which was the fire, each of them stripped off, and tied his shirt around his waist, and they ranged themselves round the second pit we have mentioned above, bathing their hair and washing their limbs, and removing their sweat, and then exercising their joints and muscles, thus ridding themselves of their fatigue; and after this they took their meal; and when they had taken their meal, they proceeded to build their hunting tents and so prepare themselves for sleep.'
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brilliant quote - and i would see neo pits and ia pits as variations on the activity described - some on home turf some in the wilds etc
burnt mounds might be a more compelling parallel on this side of the pond
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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They come with a trough round here rather than pits
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so all? neo pits were dug to hold fires and warm up water?
Reason: your past is my past
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no - mostly not
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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In situ burning extremely unusual in the ones I've seen, meaning maybe one or two out of hundreds, same applies to all the northern England site reports I've waded through, suggested once in a while
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Dinosaur Wrote:In situ burning extremely unusual in the ones I've seen, meaning maybe one or two out of hundreds, same applies to all the northern England site reports I've waded through, suggested once in a while
So could it be then that they are there to dispose of the remains of a fire, used for either cooking or warmth? I think I read earlier (14 pages and I'm naturally lazy so no check) that they do concentrate around monumental structures, could it be that they represent the campsites of diverse gatherings of people come to celebrate some occasion and that the form for these ocassions is that the community only converge at a particular moment in time? Sorry to return to my original post, I just think that our ancestors were a very pragmatic people, how they transmitted that pragmatism in the form of 'ritual' is, well, unknowable. Up here in the frozen north a lot of gaelic tales from all around the Highlands relate the story of the 'each usige' (waterhorse, who shapeshifts and drags his victims of to a watery grave) who seduces a young woman at the sheilings. They always emphasise just how good looking the young man is and how he will lay his head on her lap. If she is smart she will comb his hair and should sand or shells appear on the comb she will know her danger. Now given that the sheiling time was one of great joy for the youth of the communities, away from mum and dad, uncles and aunties and various prying eyes and the very obvious opportunities afforded to them, could such tales be an example of the first attempt at contraception? Afterall the high pastures of different communities are interconnected by the passes. Could similar stories have been told about the reason for disposing of a fire in a pit? I suppose what I'm trying to say is that do we all too often attribute ritual activity to acts that are mundane and thoroughly pragmatic activities? Thanks for making me think!
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so all fires or other activities had pits dug to put the remains of fire/activity into them.
Reason: your past is my past
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Quote:so all fires or other activities had pits dug to put the remains of fire/activity into them.
Holes in the ground can't possibly fulfill a single role, think about the possibilities - tanning, dyeing, ovens, hearths, storage, pickling (have seen Icelandic photos of rams testicles preserved in whey in wattle lined pits!!) fermenting, they can be dug just for the clay, downloading brown-ware (ahem), to bury someone, for mixing stuff in (thinking about lime mortar mixing pits) to insert a structure into (grain drying kiln?), post pits, to hide things (Derrynaflan hoard?) votive deposits (clearly ritual) and on we go - but this thread is specifically about Neo pits - and Dino and PP are suggesting (hope I'm right on this) ones of a particular size, associated with charcoal flecking, silting (generally speaking,) which could point towards a common function. I'm just throwing the suggestion of boiling water in, not saying that's what they are just a possibility worth keeping in mind. Which leads me neatly onto this next bit of romantic filth . . . And I may be banned off the forum for posting it but what the hell!! Read on . . .
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