IfA Minima Debate - THE RESULT

[Unitof1]

is that a project where you easily hire diggers on your minima pay level because they have all been unemployed for a few weeks. Then you string them along for a month because you might be getting the next new wonderful project and by the time you have got them off emergancy tax rates its time to put them out to another fey months of being subsidized by their partners. Average pay for the year after expenses -the odd pint.

G4 : (ie Technical 2 or Supervisor )£18,657.84 (£358.81 pw)
G 4/5 : (ie Senior Technical / Supervisor / Junior Project Officer )£20,063.26 (£385.83 pw)
G 5 : (ie Specialist 1, or Project Officer SMR Asst. £21,332.86
G 5/6 : (ie Senior Specialist, SMR post and Project Officer or Junior Manager) £24,159.43
G 6 : (ie Specialist 2, Senior SMR Post or Project Manager)£26,795.17
G 7 : (ie Directorial and Senior Management) £34,523.90+

[SIZE=2]Your pay minimas are for the above people who are mostly definded as "being in charge of somebody elses context sheets" working in public services or the near equivilant.[/SIZE]

[BAJR]

[SIZE=2]Your pay minimas are for the above people who are mostly definded as "being in charge of somebody elses context sheets" working in public services or the near equivilant.[/SIZE]

Just as well that everyone else knows what these are representing.

I do like how you equate archaeoogy as to representing number of context sheets filled in ... Hmmm

Looks like this thread is finally at an end.

[Unitof1]

nothing to do with numbers of context sheets but the process of filling one in.

Context archaeology=FIELD ARCHAEOLOGY =who does it=diggers.....who get ripped of by the people working on the project for the directors off the wonderous RO who fell into thier positions three decades ago by peolple who witter on about salaries for diggers when diggers dont ever work long enough to averagely stay in a job for a year.

whats the average length of employment for a digger in a year- Mr Project officer ?

[Unitof1]

Whats the average lenght of unemployment for a digger in a year, Mr project officer?=


=?

[Martin Locock]

The only data I can find (rather the anecdote) is from Profiling the Profession 2008 (p. 84):

Table 84 Length of contract
All Archaeologists
<3 months 119 4% 119 5%
3-6 months 114 4% 113 4%
6-12 months 219 8% 213 8%
12-24 months 90 3% 89 3%
>24 months 87 3% 87 3%
Permanent/open-ended 1974 74% 1859 73%
Other 70 3% 69 3%
Total 2673 100% 2549 100%


This doesn't tell us: how many people on short-term contracts had a gap until their new contract, and how many were kept on another contract.

[Cautionary Tale]

http://www.archaeologists.net/sites/defa...2007-8.pdf

Table 150 shows the length of contract data with the bulk being on "Permanent/open-ended" contracts. Table 151 is also interesting in stating that 68% of those engaged in "Field investigation and research services" - as distinct from "Archaeological management" - were on a permanent contract. Table 153 probably is the key one though - 57% in "Field investigation and research services" were in the same role for over two years.

[BAJR]

Although Unit does highlight the issue of field archaeologist to time in the field ratio. this is one that in reality will very likely never go away. Perhaps he is suggesting that the rates should reflect the seasonal nature of the work... ensuring that the 16-18k is gained during that short 6-8months window of fieldwork. Thus boosting a weekly rate to ( for an employed field archaeologist ) for example £550pw

THis is a simplistic way to view the situation. imho and also does not take into account why they feel they are "ripped of by the people working on the project for the directors off the wonderous RO who fell into thier positions three decades ago by peolple who witter on about salaries for diggers when diggers dont ever work long enough to averagely stay in a job for a year." and what that they (Unit of One ) would feel is acceptable.

They witter on about how bad it is as well. but don't actually say how they would solve it. another example of easy to complain/witter... not so easy to solve.

[Unitof1]

would you say that if somebody was to try to be a self employed archaeologist that they should ask for a price for the job rather than a day rate?

[barkingdigger]

would you say that if somebody was to try to be a self employed archaeologist that they should ask for a price for the job rather than a day rate?

I don't think there is a simple answer to this. Some clients will want a fixed price to "make the Planning obstacle go away", while others might recognise the need for a more open-ended approach, and you need to be able to offer either type of quote to fit the circumstances.

Either way, you need to start with an assessment of how much annual income you want/need, and divide it by how many days per year you are likely to work, to establish your ideal day rate. Then tendering for fixed-price work is as simple as multiplying your day rate by the number of days the job will take. Good projects have this at their core (whether presented to the client or not) because if you get it wrong you can find yourself unable to make ends meet. There is always risk involved - the trick is to get good at minimising it through sound & cautious estimating. Same applies to any sole-trader industry...

Note that what you charge for a job is not necessarily what you'd pay somebody else to do it for you - employees rarely see the majority of their company's billable rate! Not saying what's right or wrong - just stating the way the world works. If you are employed by a company (even as self-employed for tax purposes) you are trading potential profits for security and simplicity, letting the company take a slice off the top to cover their admin & tendering risks. So, an employee in a secure (?) job on £20k has traded away the right to ask as much as they want for their skilled services, but a sole trader might need a much higher day-rate to cover their risks. Of course, the sole trader also needs a range of rates to cover the fact they might be doing everything in the job from navvying to Project Managing! Oh, the joys of free-market capitalism...

[kevin wooldridge]

http://www.archaeologists.net/sites/defa...2007-8.pdf

Table 150 shows the length of contract data with the bulk being on "Permanent/open-ended" contracts.

I know it might be splitting hairs, but what added protection does an open-ended or permanent contract give an archaeological worker above and beyond a fixed or short term contract? Protection under the law depends on the total length of time you have worked irrespective of the title of your position or length of time a current project related contract runs to.

So most of this data is spurious and means nothing in reality (other than it might induce endomorphines affecting the brains of the terminally shortsighted!!) What the survey needs to ask if it wants to appear relevant is a question along the lines of 'What percentage of your current workforce would be entitled to a redundancy payment under current UK Employment legislation, if their employment were to be terminated forthwith'...that would answer the question that this section of PtP really seeks to address i.e the casuality or permanence of employment. Everyone knows that when the chips are really down both permanent and casual employees can be laid off.....follow the trail of all the companies that dress up (normally with outside consultants involved) an ongoing redundancy situation with a 'structural' reorganisation, (so they can get rid off a few big beasts, as well as the 'last in, first out crowd'....)