Posts: 1
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2013
BAJR Wrote:Sad but true... But we are back to the responsibility again. Everyone fears everyone else... nobody willing to make that first move, because someone will come in cheaper.
Because someone will come in cheaper. Subsidised by archaeologists charged £85 per week for working away.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
I'm interested in the idea of archaeologist refusing poor pay in order to drive up wages? Is there any evidence that this works effectively in the long term? Supply and demand is a very simple idea to understand, there is certainly some difficulty at the moment getting staff, especially for short term contracts but if I refuse to take a job in archaeology does this really have an affect or does it just leave me unemployed?
It's very difficult for unconnected individuals to have any impact collectivelly, it can happen but there are numerous solutions to a shortage in skilled staff who are prepared to work for the rates of pay archaeology offers, and a rise in pay is only one of them. I can see many solutions that don't have to involve a rise in pay, or could possibly result in a declinevin pay.
Would Unionisation work? I think there are plenty of good local reasons for units big and small to Unionise, health and safety, welfare, the correct allocation of holiday pay for short term staff. Unions impower people to speak out without fear but I don't think the structure of the archaeology industry is suited to large scale industrial action on pay. Maybe there are other things a unionised workforce could do, implementing levels of protectionism perhaps, but the current trend seems to be moving away from this and into free market ideas.
There is a smaller collection of individuals that could have a positive effect on pay, employers. Collectivelly they could be the solution to driving up standards, working conditions and pay. Pay is absolute responsibilty of employers, no one else.
Unfortunately I think there is a tendency to see employers, indeed for them to see themselves, as passive individuals subject to the forces of competition. Do they have any will to work collectivelly towards better pay and standards?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2011
Crocodile Wrote:I'm interested in the idea of archaeologist refusing poor pay in order to drive up wages? Is there any evidence that this works effectively in the long term? Supply and demand is a very simple idea to understand, there is certainly some difficulty at the moment getting staff, especially for short term contracts but if I refuse to take a job in archaeology does this really have an affect or does it just leave me unemployed?
Last time it was known to work without strong Union input was in 1348 - when the Black Death removed a third of the available workforce!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
Sikelgaita Wrote:So archaeological consultants are blameless in the 'keep em cheap' scenario?
probably more to blame than any other group or body with some in particular being evil incarnate. hopefully their power will diminish as the sun comes out.
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
Crocodile Wrote:I'm interested in the idea of archaeologist refusing poor pay in order to drive up wages? Is there any evidence that this works effectively in the long term? Supply and demand is a very simple idea to understand, there is certainly some difficulty at the moment getting staff, especially for short term contracts but if I refuse to take a job in archaeology does this really have an affect or does it just leave me unemployed?
It's very difficult for unconnected individuals to have any impact collectivelly, it can happen but there are numerous solutions to a shortage in skilled staff who are prepared to work for the rates of pay archaeology offers, and a rise in pay is only one of them. I can see many solutions that don't have to involve a rise in pay, or could possibly result in a declinevin pay.
Would Unionisation work? I think there are plenty of good local reasons for units big and small to Unionise, health and safety, welfare, the correct allocation of holiday pay for short term staff. Unions impower people to speak out without fear but I don't think the structure of the archaeology industry is suited to large scale industrial action on pay. Maybe there are other things a unionised workforce could do, implementing levels of protectionism perhaps, but the current trend seems to be moving away from this and into free market ideas.
There is a smaller collection of individuals that could have a positive effect on pay, employers. Collectivelly they could be the solution to driving up standards, working conditions and pay. Pay is absolute responsibilty of employers, no one else.
Unfortunately I think there is a tendency to see employers, indeed for them to see themselves, as passive individuals subject to the forces of competition. Do they have any will to work collectivelly towards better pay and standards?
large employers will blame smaller units with lower overheads and smaller units and start-ups will demand their rightful share. a unionised workforce has never had such a great opportunity to redress issues of pay and contract length. so what if some units fall by the wayside
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
P Prentice Wrote:large employers will blame smaller units with lower overheads and smaller units and start-ups will demand their rightful share. a unionised workforce has never had such a great opportunity to redress issues of pay and contract length. so what if some units fall by the wayside
What sort of action would a unionised workforce take to redress pay?
Posts: 1
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2010
P Prentice Wrote:i dont know why you keep going on about what clients are prepared to pay? they will pay for what they need to get the planning condition removed. it is not clients it is archaeologists who keep pay rates deflated
Partially right, its the consultants employed by the clients who mis-advise them on the archaeological costs of a project, then employ the cheapest contractor to fit the budget/bodget
see - we agree on one thing, consultants
!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
Crocodile Wrote:What sort of action would a unionised workforce take to redress pay?
whatever the membership voted for.
i would ask for strike action if there was enough members to have the desired effect
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2013
Would strike action be effective in an industry split between lots of various sized companies? What would be the result of no archaeological excavation taking place? What would be the solution to no archaeology taking place? An increase in wages?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
Crocodile Wrote:Would strike action be effective in an industry split between lots of various sized companies? What would be the result of no archaeological excavation taking place? What would be the solution to no archaeology taking place? An increase in wages?
the result would be a lot of pissed off developers unable to fulfil their planning conditions putting pressure on the contractors and consultants to get it sorted asap. in general developers loose more money in delays than they pay for archaeology. will this result in an increase in wages? there is a shortage of skilled labour so employers merely need to know that they can not fulfil their contracts without sorting it out. no contract no business and certainly no profit
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
