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Numbers (like being cheaper, in an environment where quality of end product is unfortunately apparently immaterial to the customer) matter quite a lot if you want to get enough work to stay in business. Your average construction firm couldn't care less how skilled the archaeologists are, and they certainly don't want efficiency if that results in stuff getting found and holding up their project/costing money - sorry, making a bid for the cynicism crown }
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11th March 2016, 11:36 AM
you are saying that your business operates by using low-skilled workers for more days than a skilled worker would take with a presumption that they wont find anything what would hold up a development? my my
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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11th March 2016, 01:59 PM
P Prentice Wrote:you are saying that your business operates by using low-skilled workers for more days than a skilled worker would take with a presumption that they wont find anything what would hold up a development? my my
Nope - and I'm not sure one of our current major clients would agree with the 'wont find anything' anything bit, can't spend that much without producing the goods }
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11th March 2016, 02:36 PM
Oh, and how is not finding anything a good business plan? You turn over a lot more money (and employ a lot more people) by digging stuff, so the onus is surely to find that stuff?
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11th March 2016, 04:50 PM
Dinosaur Wrote:Numbers (like being cheaper, in an environment where quality of end product is unfortunately apparently immaterial to the customer) matter quite a lot if you want to get enough work to stay in business. Your average construction firm couldn't care less how skilled the archaeologists are, and they certainly don't want efficiency if that results in stuff getting found and holding up their project/costing money - sorry, making a bid for the cynicism crown }
changed your tune
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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11th March 2016, 05:56 PM
Damn I miss the low speed car chases here... like the matrix, but with less rubber and leather. ( I hope)
At least it takes the heat off me... Carry on.
However. I actually understand both points of view, which are both non mutually exclusive. Indeed it is better to find archaeology and get it dealt with quicker.. ( involving more money and staff to do it quicker ) however, I prefer not to find... as it ties me up ... ( not in rubber or leather I hasten to add) however... you find what you find. and have to deal with it. An underbid is the fault of the nervous PM who perhaps is trying to please someone else... and now regrets it, as theirs and everyone elses company pension goes up the swanee with the spiralling costs of finishing the job .
Anyways.. where were we again?
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11th March 2016, 06:21 PM
Crocodile Wrote:Haha, I didn't expect you to do the sums. I have looked at the numbers myself although I don't have all the figures, and it's not really my area of expertise. I think it is something the CIfA should do or pay someone to do.
Here = what the majority of archaeologists are getting now for the level of responsibilty that they have.
There = What archaeologists should be getting in relation to equivellent occupation subject to increases over time in line with annual average pay increases.
What is the average annual pay increase in the uk at the moment? Does anyone know? I have found differing levels betweem 2% and 3.2%
I loved doing the sums...
Actually quite interesting to see the general improvement in rates at the G2 G3 level and the stagnation at the G5 and above...
The Pay increase for UK for 2016/17 is
[h=1]
1% for Public service workers ( http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/...or-workers )[/h]For the private sector... well it ranges from 1.6% to 2.5% even 3.5% and archaeology comes in at circa 2% ( I am plumping for 2.5% )
Inflation is at .5% so real profit to be had. not a lot... but better than going backwards.
This is the trouble.. there are so many variables to take into consideration that I may as well create a roadmap to Venus....
But I agree,.... we are here... and it would be good to be there... the tricky bit is the yawning chasm between and the squabbles about how best to tie the right knot as part of a rope bridge sub committee working party...
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14th March 2016, 01:59 PM
P Prentice Wrote:changed your tune
In what way?
My viewpoint has always been that we find/salvage what we can (and that often involves plenty outside the 9-5 mentality) despite underfunding of projects for clients who generally don't care in an environment where often the consultants don't either, and curators often don't/can't enforce.
But I'm all in favour of anything that might bump the wages up -just acquired a mortgage and need a new car
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Interesting HE report on skills capacity - no comment on it BAJR?
Table 5 has caused a bit of surprise around here (head offices column), leaves one wondering how inaccurate all the other data they used is as a result of using CIfA numbers...
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Dinosaur Wrote:Interesting HE report on skills capacity - no comment on it BAJR?
Table 5 has caused a bit of surprise around here (head offices column), leaves one wondering how inaccurate all the other data they used is as a result of using CIfA numbers...
either you dont count or you didnt take part in the survey.......... not team players are you
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
