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28th October 2008, 01:53 PM
There is a difference between being abl and being heard. And perhaps there is a perception that a diggers voice will be lost... which of course is not true, but perceptions are there, and could be looked at.... A look around the Council shows a wide spectrum (well done btw) but when was the last time you saw a digger on the Council?
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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28th October 2008, 01:57 PM
I'd like it to be an organisation where everyone has an equal voice and vote... from digger to director, PIfA to MIfA (or whatever the new membership moniker will be).
erm, every member in the IfA has an equal vote, or was that changed as well in the constutional changes? and as for voice - anyone can raise an issue privately or publicly, stand for Council, participate in Committees, etc etc.
Erm... yeah, I know voice of reason. My bad. I did have a sentence after that statement; copied it, deleted it and then forgot to add it back in. It ran along the lines of "I know that this already exists in the IfA (one member / one vote), but sometimes it doesn't feel like it". Just my perception of the situation... wrong, but I won't be alone.
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28th October 2008, 01:59 PM
There is a difference between being abl and being heard. And perhaps there is a perception that a diggers voice will be lost... which of course is not true, but perceptions are there, and could be looked at.... A look around the Council shows a wide spectrum (well done btw) but when was the last time you saw a digger on the Council?
Thank you BAJR host for putting it so elloquently!
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28th October 2008, 02:13 PM
Posted by gorilla: Quote:quote:The IfA should be answerable (even contactable?) to all of its members and, dare I say, the 7731 people directly earning from archaeology (Profiling the Profession 2007-0:face-thinks:. And, if they aren't answerable... why not?
Well, contact details are there on their website, so no problem contacting them. And every time I have sent in a question, I have received an answer. I see no reason why non-members can't contact them in the same way.
In terms of substantial accountability, there is the AGM and there are elections to Council. But I don't see why the IFA should be answerable to non-members, as it is the members who pay for it.
In relation to whether IfA should monitor BAJR and respond to queries placed here, well, that would be nice, but it would also take up quite a bit of time for their limited resources, trawling through every thread every day and then composing official answers. If you really want someone to answer a question, the polite thing to do is ask it directly of them - not post it on someone else's website, hope they are monitoring that site, and then complain if they don't answer. Although I am a strong supporter of both BAJR and IfA, I really do not see the argument that IfA has a responsibility to monitor and respond to discussion here.
BAJR Forum is excellent in many ways, but it is not a representative organisation - it is a collection of individuals, and whatever any of us may say there is no way of knowing how representative any view posted here is of the archaeological community as a whole. IfA, on the other hand, is a representative organisation, governed by an elected Council and responsible to its members.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
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28th October 2008, 02:15 PM
Quote:quote:Talking to non-members is an important part of our recruitment strategy and we regularly have the opportunity to hear their views.
When? Where? Who? Do you just mean the 'profiling the profession' document? Do the IFA attend conferences or try to recruit through existing RO's?
I seem to remember a couple of years ago the IFA sending people to talk at universities about the reality of commerical archaeology. Could be useful, that, especially if it brought in some of the ideas discussed in the 'basic field skills' thread.
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28th October 2008, 02:52 PM
You are right 1man... and indeed I have asked a short question.. on the 27th October.. about where, who and how the outreach takes place. As this seemed to be a question formed here... and so, as you say, to be polite, I have emailed them.
I do hwever find it interesting that the IfA have a Facebook, and are trying to engage there. though not a lot seems to be happeing, and it mainly consists of announcements from their news.. so here we have another outlet to IfA news... on... er.. an IfA site.. it goes back to communication.. and I am more than happy to - if asked, go to their website and take news about the IfA.... if they feel to busy to do it themselves....I know only too well how much time it takes me to gather info, update it, keep ahead etc... and I am only one person.... and don't do as many things as the IfA.
I do feel however, that the IfA should keep an eye on external sites.. (after all, BAJR is the only other widely read 'forum' - excluding mailing lists - for archaeologists in the UK) Most of us (well perhaps I do have to keep a closer eye) only need to pop in every so often and click the active topics to get a snapshot of whats being said... some serious, other bits.. er.. not so.
Oxbeast is right about Tim visiting unis etc to talk about and recruit ... perhaps it is still happening? perhaps not... Perhaps I should email and ask.. unless Oxbeast fancies a quick email to Tim. ?
I do however feel that
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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28th October 2008, 03:20 PM
1man1desk
I don't expect the IfA to answer here (on BAJR), nor in fact have to be answerable to anyone (apart from its members). As you rightly state:In terms of substantial accountability, there is the AGM and there are elections to Council. But I don't see why the IFA should be answerable to non-members, as it is the members who pay for it.
I also agree that BAJR Forum is excellent in many ways, and yet it is not a truly representative body (as you say, a collection of individuals with differing views). I applaud the fact that someone from the IfA has looked at the thread and has contributed (I look forward to any future contributions).
Yet BAJR Forum is about as good as it gets for archaeological free-speech, discussion and insightful comment ((yes, there is another forum I (we) could take this to (Britarch... sigh) but I believe that it does not represent the broad-base of archaeology as BAJR does, or at least tries to)).
My purpose in starting this thread (Archaeology... it's the future) is asking "where do we go from now?" Or... more precisely... "just where exactly are we going?". I have looked (albeit it briefly) at Profiling the Profession. It provides current state-of-play data on what is happening in archaeology (who does what, where), it looks at some of the problems (even gives the Invisible Digger a mention)... but it doens't really go into depth on what could (should?) be done next to alievate problems and make the digging world a whole lot better place to be. Maybe that wasn't in it's remit... it provides data not suggestions. But where and when will the problems be tackled?
We have had this conversation for years (via email, on here, in the tea-hut, in the conference room, down the pub). Things change, but at a seemingly glacial speed. Good (and bad) archaeologists come and go, but archaeology stays the same. Should it? If we (BAJR) didn't flag up the bad (and good things) every once in while (to anyone... but particularly the IfA), they might end up fogotten about and we'd be happy to just accept the way things are / laissez faire. I'm glad that the organisation called the IfA has looked at this thread (and have members and non-members).
"carry on digging"
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28th October 2008, 03:24 PM
But where and when will the problems be tackled?... exactly... and all of us need to be involved in that.. and not just words.. but action.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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28th October 2008, 03:31 PM
I think that we must have been posting at the same time, 1man. I have now emailed my questions to the admin address. however, I feel that if a person does not intend to participate in discussion, it can be counter productive to post short statements. Particularly when that post concerns outreach. Elsewhere on the internet, posters make clear when they do not have the time to follow a thread, so people know not to engage with them.
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28th October 2008, 04:29 PM
BAJR Host wrote: Quote:quote: There is a difference between being abl and being heard. And perhaps there is a perception that a diggers voice will be lost... which of course is not true, but perceptions are there, and could be looked at.... A look around the Council shows a wide spectrum (well done btw) but when was the last time you saw a digger on the Council?
As of this year's Council elections there is an overlap between elected Council members and members of the Diggers' Forum:
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...hp?page=17
[url]http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/icontent/index.php?page=151[url]
Gorilla asked (in the context of talking about Profiling the Profession):
Quote:quote:it doens't really go into depth on what could (should?) be done next to alievate problems and make the digging world a whole lot better place to be. Maybe that wasn't in it's remit... it provides data not suggestions. But where and when will the problems be tackled?
This is a genuine question: isn't that the goal of 'The Diggers' Forum' (an IfA Special Interest Group)? It's free for IfA members and £5 per year for non-members. Here is the link to a report which includes information about what 'The Diggers' Forum' got up to last year, in particular its involvement in the 'Living Wage Camplaign':
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...date02.pdf
The Living Wage Campaign was undertaken alongside BAJR and Prospect. Isn't The Diggers' Forum made up of diggers, and doesn't it have direct access to and communication with the rest of the IfA? If archaeologists posting here haven't joined the group, why not? Or am I being especially dim today?
Hal Dalwood
Bad archaeologist, worse husband
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