BAJR union...

[trowelfodder]

This may be a somewhat unpopular adition to this debate but I do think we do have to partly blame ourselves for the lack of representation and direction in negotiating anything. It seems that trying to arange any groups of archaeologists to achieve anything is like herding cats.

We (myself included) all rely on David for far too much and we can hardly be relied upon to provide support when it is needed, where was everyone at the last BAJR conerence for example.

But yet BAJR is usually a first port of call when we have a problem... so how are we going to work things if David is expected to run a union as well?

It is a good idea to form a BAJR group but it needs far far more commitment than we as a proffession have provided in the past.

And we would have a much stronger union presence if all archaeologists would join and be active within unions - if you are a circuit digger and you move around most companies dont have representation but if all circuit diggers joined a union then this problem would be eased.

[BAJR Host]

I do think that strong union representation is needed too... (perhaps a change at PROSPECT?? ) support of course is needed.. (thanks Trowel!) and support muct be for the long term..

"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton

[kevin wooldridge]

Trowel Fodder comments are fair and accurate.

However for archaeologists to effectively organise they need to have enough self-confidence to overcome the fear that the profession seems to instill in many people. My intuition (and a few years experience) suggests that kind of confidence comes from the support of friends and colleagues in the industry and I think BAJR is a helpful conduit towards that end. I mean no-one is too bothered if you use BAJR forums to hone your thoughts and develop your tactics before tackling the 'real' problems in your working life.

Oh and we are also here with kind words when your confidence takes a knock....well most of us are anyway.

[monty]

Trowelfodder's comments are certainly true, particularly where trying to get a group of archaeologists to do anything is concerned. Though getting circuit diggers and many other low paid archaeologists to
join a union is very difficult as many genuinely cannot afford the subs.

[chiz]

quote:Though getting circuit diggers and many other low paid archaeologists to join a union is very difficult as many genuinely cannot afford the subs.

even if that is true, they could all afford a fiver a year to join the Digger's Forum and give them a decent mandate, rather than just whinge down the pub about how skint they are and how someone should start a representative group for them!!!

And I've lived on a digger's wage in London, with a small child, and a sick dog, and been a member of the union, and still had money left to go to the pub and whinge!!!!

[monty]

i was referring to prospect rather than DFA subs. Another point; how many archaeologists dont join the IFA due to the high subs ??

[chiz]

quote:Originally posted by monty

i was referring to prospect rather than DFA subs. Another point; how many archaeologists dont join the IFA due to the high subs ??

And I was referring to both the £5 a year for Diggers Forum, and the Prospect subs.

IFA subs are subsidised by some units at 50% others at 100%. I can't check the IFA rate for the average digger as their site is down (!!) but for me its about £4 a week. The point of the DF was that you got a voice and mandate inside the IFA for just a fiver. I'd rather spend my money on union subs than IFA if I had to choose.
Being a member of a union is, I would say, an essential given the industry we are all in, sacrificing £71.40 a year is less than two quid a week.

[monty]

about six quid a week may not sound much for both union and IFA subs but around 300 quid a year for what benefit ?? a voice and mandate inside IFA is all very well but exactly what has been achieved in recent years......anything ??? i havent noticed becoming any better off whatsoever. Many genuinely cant afford these fees ...........what happens during periods of signing on ...........

[chiz]

With the DF you don't have to join the IFA to get a mandate for site staff within the IFA. You just pay £5. Easy.

If you are signing on you can get your union subs dropped to a lower rate. IFA I don't think you can as appears to be based on previous years salary. I imagine I'll have to find out soon as all my work has dried up.

So for about 76 quid a year (less if you are on the dole for a bit) you get to be in the union, and have a voice in the IFA. I agree 'about £300' would be a fair chunk of a diggers wage, except the rate I pay to the IFA isn't based on a digger's wage, but as a freelance specialist, and at MIFA rate. The IFA website is still down so I can't get the exact figures for a typical non-London digger, but anyway its less than £4 a week, I didn't want to give a guess, so I gave the cost of my subs.

You talk in another post about needing 'strength and unity to achieve', well the union, and the DF, and indeed the iFA would get a lot more done if everyone stopped saying 'what has it done', got those rogue units unionised and pulled together to improve things and keep them improved. I don't know where you work, or how long you been working but I've spent the last 10+ years digging in London, the union didn't get me huge pay rises as my employer was restricted by DCMS, it did however get me other rights, negotiated higher rises than otherwise, sorted out loads of personal issues that could have ended my career, defended me against disciplinary, saved a load of jobs at the last redundancy round, and before, got a benchmarking exercise, sorted equipment, stay-away, mileage and travel allowances, had a team of dedicated volunteer officials to go to when anything went wrong or seemed unfair, and a load more. Who else is going to do that for you in your organisation? and make sure it stays improved? Yeah we thought central office was too soft, but maybe we can do something about that eh?
Before London I worked for ten years in loads of units, some unionised (Unison and IPMS), and some not -guess where we got ridden roughshod over more? You may not have seen any changes in archaeology, but I have, and want to keep the improvements and build on them. I think that involves a commitment from all of us.

If you think David can replace a union and a professional organisation and charge no subs, and do all the jobs of a union in every organisation, and keep the rest of the site running, then dream on. If you think he probably wants to do that, then dream on. If you want archaeology to be professional, then who is going to sort it, like it or not its the IFA, with pressure from lobbying groups. DF gets you a voice in that for £5, and its getting site staff onto the top table. Any new BAJR group could deliver the external pressure alongside the union. We've all got to do our bit and pull together, if that means one less pint a week to get the industry unionised, then that's a fair price isn't it? You decide.

right, I'm off to herd some cats...

[kevin wooldridge]

Just to clarfy one point. If you are already a PIFA/AIFA/MIFA, membership of Diggers Forum is free. Its only non-IFA members who have to pay a fiver.

Maybe DF could also negotiate a deal with Prospect that gives 'free' membership of DF to Prospect members who don't happen to be members of IFA. I will suggest it to the the Archaeologists Branch and to DF. I seem to remember from my time as a IPMS/Prospect rep that it is possible for individual union branches to affiliate to campaign groups that by default makes each member of that branch an ex officio supporter of the campaign. If the 3 biggest Prospect branches would affiliate to DF, I believe their membership would more than double.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more a good idea that sounds. Get every 'archaeological' branch of Prospect to affliate to the Diggers Forum. New Year resolution/project....