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Help BAJR and the PAS at Thornborough
#51
Deer hunting can be as much about conservation and education as collecting in my personal experience of doing so!

See there you go, it seems your ignorance in such matters lets you down Paul!
Any one who bothers to look close enough at the details of such things as you obviously haven't, would know that a herd of deer can become to big for its environment so culling will ensue for the betterment of the herd as a whole. Just a little lesson for you to learn I suppose.
And yes' I love venison!

If enough interesting items turn up at the henge's then there is certainly enough legislation to have that area protected and therefore could be a turning point to save that landscape to some degree!
Would be ironic to think metal detecting might be that sites last best hope![8D]

Evil to him who thinks evil.
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#52
Both deer and legislation are renewable resources, unlike prehistoric monuments.

I think the profusion of wierd and innapropriate metaphors is an indication that this thread is rapidly unravelling.



'Have a good plan, execute it violently, do it today'.
General MacArthur
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#53
Agreed... :face-huh:

lets stay on topic...

I need a final and definitive list of who will be with me and when...

please email me

info@bajr.org

Another day another WSI?
Reply
#54
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Petethedig

See there you go, it seems your ignorance in such matters lets you down Paul! [...] Just a little lesson for you to learn I suppose.
No Pete, I am not at all "ignorant" in such matters. In attempting to deflect this to ad personam comments in the usual tekkie fashion, you fail to prove your point about "education" which is the one I queried. It seems you are the only person here who does not see that your deer reproduction crisis analogy does not apply to a finite resource like the archaeological record.

I think you will find that there have been very few (if any) cases of the reporting of metal detector finds leading to a site being scheduled. This (as I am sure you are in reality aware) has been discussed many times in detecting circles as it is one of the arguments used by those unwilling to report finds. The "henges" are already scheduled, it is the landscape setting which is the topic of current discussion.

Paul Barford
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#55
[quote]Originally posted by tom wilson

Both deer and legislation are renewable resources, unlike prehistoric monuments.

I think the profusion of wierd and innapropriate metaphors is an indication that this thread is rapidly unravelling.


Not at all, I simply stated that Paul is not the master of all knowledge as is sometimes portrayed!

The deer metaphor wasn't mine either!

The fact is that sites that have been reported through the PAS(Artifact scatters) and therefore onto the SMR/HER are being put out of bounds for detecting. Talk to Peter McCrone of DEFRA, its public knowledge of course in the UK. So Thornborough still may be saved!Big Grin

Evil to him who thinks evil.
Reply
#56
TAKE BITS OUT THAT YOU NEED!
Those of you that attended the 2005 Corfe Castle Rally last September will remember that Peter Woodward, Curator at the Dorset County Museum in Dorchester, headed up an archaeological dig at the site of the 2004 Roman patera find. In addition to the excavations, his team also conducted geophysical surveys of approximately 50% of the field in which the patera was found. He has the results of those surveys together with the results of excavation across some of the structures identified on this site. He will be making a presentation on these discoveries, together with a display of some of the finds, with his colleagues at the National Trust Centre at Corfe Castle, on the weekend of the Corfe Rally in September. The presentation will start at 4.30pm on Saturday 2nd September and is scheduled to last an hour – don’t be late! All Platinum members who took part in the dig last fall, those who helped with the excavations as well as those who detected the field and donated their finds last year, have an exclusive invitation to attend this exciting presentation.

However, there's a bit more to this. As a result of your finds and Peter’s investigations, this site has been identified as one of ***National Importance*** (the reasons for this will be made clear in Peter’s presentation). In order for Peter and his team to have an accurate (and more comprehensive) overview of this site, he has a request:

He would like all the MLO Platinum members who have recovered artefacts and coins on that particular site (across the whole of the patera field and the one to the east on the other side of the railway line) to donate them back to the landowner, Jonathan Ramm, and the Dorset County Museum for further study and conservation. All donated finds would be owned by Jonathan; DCM would study, conserve and display them.

This would allow Peter to study all the finds together as one single assemblage (more pieces of the puzzle, if you will), and give him a much clearer picture of the site. Peter is also planning an official dig, if funds can be found, on this site in 2007, and having the finds donated for comprehensive study will help him determine where the next trenches should be dug. These can then join those finds and discoveries of 2005 - that Peter has arranged to have on display at the National Trust Education Room for the day of the presentation. This arrangement, in agreement with the farmer Jonathan Ramm, would also apply to any finds detected and found across the two fields of the site this year, at the 2006 Rally. So, in effect, the detecting on these two fields this year will be done in the context of the larger archaeological project that began last fall. The newer Platinum members, as well as those who couldn't join us last fall, really missed out on an exciting project. It was great to be involved as we were, with Peter and Nancy (Nancy Grace w/the Nat'l Trust). I'm really looking forward to the rally as well as the larger dig next year.

Also, you may remember that Minelab generously donated funds for the restoration of the patera (see the before and after stills of it within the video production that Gary and I produced; here's the Windows Medialink). I've also asked Peter to let me know what costs and issues would be involved in having a plaque displayed with these collected finds at the museum, showing that the Minelabowners group recovered and donated all the finds related to this very important site. Gary and I will cover any costs associated with that.

I don't know that any of this has ever been done before. A couple of finds of importance are declared (the patera and the Durotriges stater hoard, for those who didn't know), a large group of detectorists then donates their finds for the advancement of understanding of a particular site of historic and national importance, and then the site develops into a major archaeological project that has exciting national ramifications. Needless to say, these new developments within this story will also be filmed and added to the existing production on the patera dig. Also, with the official archaeology commencing sometime next year, I can easily see a 2nd video production coming out of this. Gary and I will be working closely with Peter and the National Trust to make sure that any further discoveries, as well as the larger story as it unfolds, is well documented. I also think we'd have a good shot at getting an articles in TH and/or Searcher for this, as well as some local or national media attention. We'll certainly try. This is a tremendous bit of positive publicity for detecting and the relationship between detectorists and archaeologists, and we need to take full advantage of it.

This is what it’s all about, people: cooperation and uncovering the past and identifying major sites of interest and importance. I again stress the point that this doesn’t happen every day. And it’s hard to believe how exciting that this situation has turned out to be. If any of you wish to discuss further, please let me know.

Regarding donation of your finds from this site, can I please get replies quickly from the Platinum membership who were involved last fall? We're running out of time until the rally, and there are several logistical concerns that have to be addressed if all this is going to take place. Comments are welcome on the board, but please email me directly with your yes or no answers, or anything else you want to discuss. You can reach me at pat.watson@minelabowners.com.

Exciting times are ahead!


Just goes to show anything is possible!

Evil to him who thinks evil.
Reply
#57
Paul, Nigel, with respect instead of sitting in front a computer bitching about things, why not get off your arses and volunteer to attend?

If you are that concerned Paul then distance is no problem, I know Nigel is no archie,just a concerned member of the public, but he might learn something while he is making the tea....

http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk

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#58
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Petethedig

[quote]The fact is that sites that have been reported through the PAS(Artifact scatters) and therefore onto the SMR/HER are being put out of bounds for detecting. Talk to Peter McCrone of DEFRA, its public knowledge of course in the UK. So Thornborough still may be saved!Big Grin
It is also "public knowledge" that chalk is not cheese; being included in CSS type agreements is not the same as scheduling. Thornborough henges and parts of the area around are safe (at the moment) from devastation by Tarmac, but not artefact hunters it seems.

I really don't get your [u]Corfe Castle rally </u>point. This was being held up not so long ago as a prime example of archaeologists and detectorists "working together". Now we find the finds have been scattered, and the only way the archaeologists can use the information from them now is to get the landowner to ask for them all back. So much for any "recording" that was done at the time of their recovery in this allegedly exemplary "working together". Let's hope PAS and David and his BAJR helpers are allowed by circumstances to make a better job at Thornborough... Again the recommendations of "Our Portable Past" seem inescapable as a model for this kind of work if it is to have any real meaning.

[u]Steve</u>, I already have other plans for the 8th to 10th September. Even if for some strange reason and going against everything I stand for I wanted to help artefact hunters build up their personal collections of archaeological artefacts taken from this site (which I do not), or saw the point of this manner of mitigating the inevitable loss of information this rally will incur (which I do not), and if getting there would be as effortless and expense free as you suggest (which it will not), I really cannot take part. And I certainly think there are better people to drag all the way up there to make the tea than Nigel.

But if it concerns you so much to find on an archaeological forum people who have various opinions on the matter of personal collection of archaeological artefacts, then perhaps you really should get better arguments on your side than "shooting deer is educational" or "why dont you get on a plane and come and join us" and the suchlike tosh.

Paul Barford
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#59
Quote:quote:And I certainly think there are better people to drag all the way up there to make the tea than Nigel.

How cruel.. I am sure Nigel makes a loverly cup o tea.. Wink

Another day another WSI?
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#60
I am sure he can, but would the artefact hunters drink it? To my mind the most effective way to protect the archaeology from damage would be to lace it with a strong and quick-working laxative, though I have a feeling that Nigel is too nice a guy to do something like that.

Paul Barford
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