Uses of HERs

[chrysalis]

Reposted from another thread at request of moderator

HER data - why we should report things

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... there are many uses of HER data other than just public information and informing DBAs for planning. One of the main ones in rural areas (such as the Yorkshire Wolds) is to inform the production of base maps for agri-environment schemes. And one of the conditions of entry by farmers into the current agri-environment schemes in England, Environmental Stewardship, is that they do not permit metal detecting on their land. If they are found to be permitting detecting they are in breach of a legal agreement and funding will be reclaimed from them. While this is a voluntary scheme and farmers are not required to enter it can often be lucrative for them in terms of farm maintainance payments etc and so there is fairly high coverage of rural archaeological sites. Natural England (who administer the schemes on behalf of Defra) have in-house archaeologists of advise on archaeology/farming issues to help further protect these sites and assign funds to undertake (sensitive) projects to improve their condition. NE works closely with EH on improving the condition of monuments @ risk. Without the baseline data from HERs they can do nothing however. So adding sites to the HER can lead to the protection of 'treasure' and archaeological sites in a far more direct way than most people might think.
While nighthawks can then persist when permission is not granted by the landowner at this stage the police are able to get involved and it is a matter for the law.

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[Unitof1]

http://www.e-a-a.org/wg2.htm

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about...risk-down/

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[Dinosaur]

Some form of screening should be in place in HERs/SMRs filtering what sort of information gets given to which people - I've had experience of reputedly 'secret' sites just turning up as part of the package of data when I've requested an area search for a DBA, without anything being flagged up as sensitive

[kevin wooldridge]

I honestly think that the question of whether access to the HER might facilitate heritage crime is a tad overrated.

I know a lot of detectorists (99% of whom I would class as honest) and it always amazes me as to how much they know about the potential of sites not just in there own locality but wider afield. I am sure that this knowledge comes from word of mouth and talking to other detectorists. Because 99% of the detectorists I know are honest this has never occurred to me as a problem.....but I am sure it is also knowledge that is well known amongst the 1% of detectorists who are less than honest. Would restricting information on the HER deter any of this 1% of detectorists - frankly No!! Would restricting information on the HER mean that the 1% of dangerous detectorists wouldn't find out about sites - I think not!! So why hinder the HER by hobbling it when hobbling is of no effective consequence....

[BAJR]

Absolutely agree... the point of it is to inform... and those that are criminals will find many other ways... already do as well... !

[kevin wooldridge]

I was once stopped from taking photographs of a 17th century fireplace in an 'English Stately Home' because (the security guard told me) I could use that photograph as part of 'casing the joint' ahead of returning at some future date to steal the fireplace. Well fair enough I thought until browsing in the National Trust shop at the end of my tour I discovered on sale a postcard of said fireplace with far more detailed info than my photo would have ever contained ... Maybe as a protest I should have nicked the postcard!!

[Jack]

Hmm, if 99% of metal detectorists are honest, who is nighthawking our sites?

Or is that 99% of the ones you know are honest?

[Madweasels]

It is not just the number of detectorists but the amount of time they spend detecting. I suspect that even 1% engaged in intensive nighthawking actvities would be in the field for a much longer period of time than a much greater proportion of the honest ones.

[Dinosaur]

A bit more reporting of finds from detectorists would help clear the air a bit - as an example, speaking as someone who does a lot of work around the area, I'd really, REALLY like to know where all the Anglian finds on sale on the net recently from "Catterick, North Yorkshire" are coming from - so would EH - someone's plundering a cemetery there (the range of material makes that obvious) and selling all the stuff on the net, and it ain't legit metal-detecting, glass and amber beads in quantity are not normal metal-detector finds, thats fully digging out burials........!

[BAJR]

The north is a particular area of both legit and non legit detecting. The hardest thing to get over is that it can't be both ways.. respect as legitimate and very useful technique for discovering new finds. AND an attitude of secrecy and closed activities that will only record what they feel they want to. They will have been bought from detectorists... on Ebay. I take it it is this one... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ANGLO-SAXON-GLASS-...ntiquities

Timeline Originals are one of the big sellers. At teh Portable antiquities conference earlier this year, there was a series of talks, one of which highlighted the Ebay seller. from individual to big business. They know the law, they know it well... and they stay just within it.

Interstingly, on the flip side of the coin... A detectorist I recently talked to on their forum (I go for talking with people on their own terms rather than sitting gloomey and cross armed at a distance ) and I was able to hitch them up with a specialist, who they visted and showed the find .. and so the record is enhanced... it was not that the detectoirst was 'bad' it was that they just not have the contacts ... so given the opportunity... they are our equals in passion and knowledge. The antiquites selling... hmmm... I have never liked it or can agree with it. but it is not illegal. (come to Scotland though where it is) It is important to make a distinction between detecting and antiquites trade. Yes there is an overlap, but it is an overlap.