Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is the time right to sort out pay and conditions?
#11
In the old days diggers dug and site assistants (who assisted the director/supervisors, you had to get promoted to site assistant in days of yore!) did the recording - actually it can/did work fine. On smaller jobs I always do as much of the recording as possible myself, partly cos I can actually read my own handwriting and also since I leave the site at the end secure in the knowledge I have an internally consistent site archive and no nasty surprises in px...till the C14 dates come back, anyway....

The major drawback to letting everyone do their own site recording is that you, er, have to let everyone do their own site recording :face-crying:
Reply
#12
Dinosaur Wrote:In the old days diggers dug and site assistants (who assisted the director/supervisors, you had to get promoted to site assistant in days of yore!) did the recording - actually it can/did work fine. On smaller jobs I always do as much of the recording as possible myself, partly cos I can actually read my own handwriting and also since I leave the site at the end secure in the knowledge I have an internally consistent site archive and no nasty surprises in px...till the C14 dates come back, anyway....

The major drawback to letting everyone do their own site recording is that you, er, have to let everyone do their own site recording :face-crying:

I guess I've only seen it run the one way, and I happen to like it because it meant I learned from the start how to record to the company standards, and I like to see individuals take responsibility for the work they do. But, I admit, that there can be a fair bit of, to be diplomatic, 'reinterpretation' of records from some people... But it's the ones who consistently fail to produce adequate work that don't get the contract extensions or the permanent positions. Usually. This system produces individuals with a wider skill-set and who are more useful to the company, as anyone who's progressed past trainee can be put on any job and be left to do the work with far less supervision. Maybe I'm lucky with the company I work for, because to my mind it is well worth the effort and time teaching the trainees how to record properly.
I reserve the right to change my mind. It's called learning.
Reply
#13
Not everyone in our company works the way Dino does. We have at least three models of systems for running a site. It depends largely on who is running the site on the ground, how many diggers there are on what the archaeology is.

Personally I prefer that every digger does everything, clean dig and record. If they can't do something they get taught and/or helped by experieneced digger/assistant/supervisor or PO. This does mean however, to get a decent internally consistent archive everything has to be thoroughly checked and cross-checked on site.

This is how I was taught.
Reply
#14
Jack Wrote:Not everyone in our company works the way Dino does. We have at least three models of systems for running a site. It depends largely on who is running the site on the ground, how many diggers there are on what the archaeology is.

Personally I prefer that every digger does everything, clean dig and record. If they can't do something they get taught and/or helped by experieneced digger/assistant/supervisor or PO. This does mean however, to get a decent internally consistent archive everything has to be thoroughly checked and cross-checked on site.

This is how I was taught.

And that is a world I can work in. But yes, it does require good people to keep an eye on proceedings. How do you get those good people in place? Training.
I reserve the right to change my mind. It's called learning.
Reply
#15
Tool Wrote:Just for any potential trainees reading this forum, the above is not true, at least with the company I work for. You will be taught how to record as well as dig right from the start. It's considered to all be part of the process. And on a practical level it's not an efficient way to work, expecting the experienced people to pick up all the recording.


This may not be true with your outfit Tool but it is widespread and yet another way for units to maximise profits at the expense of field staff.
Reply
#16
Jack Wrote:Not everyone in our company works the way Dino does. We have at least three models of systems for running a site. It depends largely on who is running the site on the ground, how many diggers there are on what the archaeology is.

Personally I prefer that every digger does everything, clean dig and record. If they can't do something they get taught and/or helped by experieneced digger/assistant/supervisor or PO. This does mean however, to get a decent internally consistent archive everything has to be thoroughly checked and cross-checked on site.

This is how I was taught.


Difference between hut-supervisor and site-supervisor, I prefer spending my time outdoors, but each to their own :face-approve:

My personal paperwork comes pre-checked though, shame the rest needs doing really Sad
Reply
#17
Saw this article today: http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2014...rd-levels/

Key quote: “A broad-based upturn in construction demand has created a boom in job creation this summer, as construction companies look to replace capacity lost in the aftermath of the recession. However, acute skill shortages meant that subcontractor charges rose at the fastest pace since the survey began in 1997."

Other sectors are responding to upturn + lack of capacity by raising prices. Simple supply and demand, innit. But how many units have put their prices up? We haven't.

Begs the question, if every other subcontractor can get their head around the fact that when you're in demand, you can charge more, why haven't we? I sound like a raging capitalist, but if we can't even make the effort to pay each other a decent rate when we've got the opportunity, how are we ever going to make progress on the pay problem?
Reply
#18
On a recent job whenever we put in a predicted cost for the next bit of work the client asked us to cut costs as all the other sub-contractors (building/demolishing etc) costs were higher than expected.

With the threat of the work being put out for re-tendering and the knowledge that there are plenty of cowboy operations out there that would put in a lower cost and not do the archaeology properly and get away with it, what can you do?

Especially as a mix up at county level made doing any archaeology difficult to justify. Luckily the client was keen to do the right thing even though they didn't have to.

It sometimes seems that we have no allies, no one backs us up when we tell a client it will cost you £X to dig and record this really important stuff here. With planners and consultants saying 'yeah, its ok to machine that stuff out,' and dubious 'archaeological contractors' claiming they can do a job for half the price (that wouldn't even cover the excavation let alone the post-ex).

If people (us, the powers that be, the general public) are really bothered about preserving even a bit of our cultural heritage before it is destroyed by plough, spade and machine bucket archaeology NEEDS TO BE REGULATED!
Reply
#19
Some enforcement of what stuff there is now would be an improvement, most curators don't dare and IFA clearly can't be a**ed to enforce its own rules
Reply
#20
In the Pit Wrote:Key quote: “A broad-based upturn in construction demand has created a boom in job creation this summer, as construction companies look to replace capacity lost in the aftermath of the recession. However, acute skill shortages meant that subcontractor charges rose at the fastest pace since the survey began in 1997."

Other sectors are responding to upturn + lack of capacity by raising prices. Simple supply and demand, innit. But how many units have put their prices up? We haven't.

Begs the question, if every other subcontractor can get their head around the fact that when you're in demand, you can charge more, why haven't we? I sound like a raging capitalist, but if we can't even make the effort to pay each other a decent rate when we've got the opportunity, how are we ever going to make progress on the pay problem?

Problem is that most of the units are still run by hippies/old lags who started out in the 70s and 80s and think they're still doing archaeology for the social good... If they had more balls and raised their prices in the face of being swamped by work everyone would be better off. But they all seem petrified at 'annoying' clients or being under cut by one man bands
Just like in every other part of the industry one man bands can undercut everyone but they can't handle medium or large sized projects so I don't know where this fear comes from. And most clients won't care about prices going up if the work is done quickly and efficiently.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Sort it out! Sikelgaita 54 10,983 7th December 2015, 07:40 PM
Last Post: Sikelgaita
  Pay and conditions - The ultimate answer? Jack 34 6,817 30th July 2014, 08:52 AM
Last Post: Sith
  Hosty isn't it time that a few moderators were killed off Marc Berger 7 1,637 28th July 2014, 08:53 AM
Last Post: Sith
  industry owned’ group - deals with Pay and conditions. BAJR 1 871 10th July 2014, 06:44 PM
Last Post: BAJR
  Bizarre ditch question time. Tool 82 11,456 21st October 2013, 12:50 PM
Last Post: Jack
  MEDIEVAL LAND FUN-TIME WORLD" — A Bad Lip Reading of Game of Thrones BAJR 1 1,043 17th October 2013, 11:28 AM
Last Post: BAJR
  Developer charged with breach pf conditions after failure to complete archaeology BAJR 22 3,730 22nd August 2013, 12:29 PM
Last Post: Unitof1
  RIP Time Team, you were a national treasure BAJR 47 10,014 8th April 2013, 08:35 AM
Last Post: Sith
  Open Forum: Discussing pay and Conditions in Archaeology BAJR 12 3,113 28th March 2013, 02:03 PM
Last Post: Dinosaur
  Time again? P Prentice 16 3,029 14th March 2013, 02:23 PM
Last Post: P Prentice

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)