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Volunteers - garybrun - 17th January 2008
Thanks Paul and thanks Steve for taking the time to explain that.
Quote:quote:At which point the employed MDs become archaeologists under law (as discussed on another thread) and can no longer gain financially under the Treasure Act.How do they become archaeologists under the law?
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Volunteers - Paul Belford - 17th January 2008
Anyone working for an archaeological organisation on a fieldwork project is going to be 'an archaeologist'. Whether paid or unpaid (but governed by an agreement). Whatever their hobby - whippet-racing, anarchy, bondage, cycling, trainspotting, metal-detecting etc. - when at work each fieldworker has the same rights and responsibilities as other fieldworkers. That is, any find (whether pure gold or unglazed coarse earthenware) belongs to the project, and, ultimately to the landowner (or final receiving institution if another agreement has been reached).
If I (with my hobby of collecting slipware) happen to wander across a field in my own time as a private individual and pick up a few sherds then that is my look out and an entirely different matter. (Technically of course they belong to the landowner and I should ask his/her permission before removing them). If on the other hand I spot some slipware whilst at work (even in the same field) then it gets handed over and properly recorded. If I spot some when working and then come back for it later, then that is quite dodgy. But for some reason 'earthenware nighthawks' are not that big a problem... or are they?
I remember working at Snettisham in the early 1990s for the British Museum, where one or two (!) gold artefacts were found. We all had to sign a disclaimer stating that the finds were the property of the BM and we would make no claim upon them as individuals. We were earning something like £50 a week I think, but that's another story...
Volunteers - garybrun - 17th January 2008
Don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying I don't agree with it. Just wanted to understand the point you were making as I had never really thought about it. A couple of detectorists I know and volunteers who receive no payment sign these disclaimers without any problems at all.
When we did the Corfe Rally which you saw on OneShow TV everyone gave their finds to the Dorset museum.
David was present at that rally and saw with his own eyes how the "rifts" that many publicise where really not as big as many think. The real secret is face to face contact and discuss.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Volunteers - Unitof1 - 17th January 2008
Hello Hello Hello
I wonder what volunteering is as a definition in tax- ......does the volunteer have to sign anything. I imagine that if I took on a few volunteers the taxman would slaughter me.
Volunteers - Sith - 17th January 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by garybrun
I think this it the crunch of the matter isn't it.
Are volunteers threatening qualified archaeologists jobs.
It depends on how and why they are being used. I'm all for volunteers used (as I was in my distant youth) as an additional resource, but not where an employer is reliant upon them to get the job done.
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
Don't make me destroy you, Curator
Volunteers - Steven - 17th January 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by garybrun
Don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying I don't agree with it. Just wanted to understand the point you were making as I had never really thought about it. A couple of detectorists I know and volunteers who receive no payment sign these disclaimers without any problems at all.
When we did the Corfe Rally which you saw on OneShow TV everyone gave their finds to the Dorset museum.
David was present at that rally and saw with his own eyes how the "rifts" that many publicise where really not as big as many think. The real secret is face to face contact and discuss.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Hi Gary
The reason I say under Law is becuase the Treasure Act 1996 clearly states that archaeologists cannot get rewarded when finding artefacts deemed to fall within the Act. Any MD therefore who works regularly for an archaeological unit and can be described therefore as an archaeologist may well be subject to this part of the Law. Under that law there does not appear to be a distinction between being "at work" or in "spare time" so Paul's distinction (concerning projects goverened by a project brief) is not there under the Treasure Act so we are archaeologists at all time.
Steven
Volunteers - 1man1desk - 17th January 2008
Posted by Oldgirl:
Quote:quote:the point made many years ago was always that it was not reasonable to use a volunteer (unpaid, albeit not free) in place of a paid member of staff
The reality of 'volunteering' as practiced in the UK from the late 1970s up to around 1990 was that the volunteers were paid, and in many cases made their living principally by archaeological volunteering. However, their pay came in the form of a flat-rate 'subsistence allowance', usually paid in cash, with no tax, NI etc. This meant that the units (all public bodies or charities at the time) could effectively employ staff, but at greatly reduced cost, while the staff themselves had no employment rights. Sometimes even the supervisors were 'volunteers', with a higher rate of subsistance payment.
A lot of the objection to using volunteers now is due to the fear of reintroducing that sort of exploitative system. Another objection is that it can lead to unfair competition in a competitive tendering situation (not an issue in the old days). Finally, units have far less control of volunteers than employees.
However, I think the type of volunteer we are talking about today is a very different creature. I can't see an objection in principle to allowing volunteers to participate in commercial archaeology, as long as:
- they are completely unpaid
- they are a small proportion of the field team
- they have a defined role
- their involvement is planned for from the pre-tender stage, with a mechanism to prevent unfair competition.
This would apply equally to diggers and metal-detectorists. However, both would have to recognise that anything they find belongs to the project - no removal of finds for sale/reward, no separate agreements with the landowner.
My organisation has in the past used metal-detectors on site (sometimes this is a curator's requirement), but generally it is used by one of our own staff, or else we employ a metal-detectorist; we haven't used metal detectorists as volunteers.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Volunteers - garybrun - 17th January 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Steven
Hi Gary
The reason I say under Law is becuase the Treasure Act 1996 clearly states that archaeologists cannot get rewarded when finding artefacts deemed to fall within the Act. Any MD therefore who works regularly for an archaeological unit and can be described therefore as an archaeologist may well be subject to this part of the Law. Under that law there does not appear to be a distinction between being "at work" or in "spare time" so Paul's distinction (concerning projects goverened by a project brief) is not there under the Treasure Act so we are archaeologists at all time.
Steven
Archaeology is the systematic study of past human existence and culture by the recovery and examination of material remains, such as graves, buildings, tools, and pottery.
Thanks for that Stephen.
That is an excelent point for debate and one I have never heard mentioned on any detecting forum. Nor have I ever looked at it that way. To be honest if a detectorist receives any payment from an archaeological group he is in all effect and archaeologist.
Are voluntary archaeologist also subject to the "non reward" treasure act or just those who are paid?
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Volunteers - garybrun - 17th January 2008
A thought.
Is an archaeologist always an archaeologist or only when he gets paid?
I know of an archaeologist, who while cycling to work in Milton Keynes found a 17/18th century gold mourning ring that had eroded out of a river bank... He was later paid for the ring via the archaeology unit he worked for. So it would seem because he wasn't at work (working) he was entitled to the award.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Volunteers - Paul Belford - 17th January 2008
Personally, I am always an archaeologist. I just am, and have been since my interest in the past first developed when I was a small child. I never really switch off, always looking down holes in the ground, at landscapes and at buildings wherever I go, asking myself "now why is that like that", and "what went on here".
I consider myself extremely lucky to be able to do this as a job, and if I won the lottery would quite happily continue doing it for nothing.
Probably many others feel the same way and this is why we are our own worst enemies when it comes to pay and conditions. Sometimes it gets a bit much and we have a moan, and sometimes even question why we are doing it at all - there's no money, no-one seems to care, and you have to work long long hours and develop chronic alcohol poisoning to get anywhere in the rather unusual world of archaeology.
But by the time you have been doing it professionally for nearly 20 years then you have to acknowledge that you're doomed to carry on.
That's me anyway!
[url]http://paulbelford.blogspot.com/"[/url]