do I have muppet written on my forehead?

[Pete M]

quote:Originally posted by Sith

quote:Originally posted by Pete M
It was the director.

Interesting, so was Mr Radley. Is there a pattern developing here? I'm still unconvinced about this 90s fatality. It's very strange that I can find no reference to it anywhere.

D. Vader
Senior Consultant

Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants

We are the consultants you are looking for

I remember reading it in the paper one lunchtime when I was excavating - Probbaly July or August 1990. I remember that the trench was 4m or so deep, unshored and cut into sand/silt. I remember the detail because I was working in a similar material at the time. The director may have been a lecturer. Of course I could have been reading about the earlier event. I distinctly remember thinking 'there for the grace of god...' followed by 'stupid - it's not worth the riak'

[Pete M]

I mentioned manual handling because it was not until I arranged/did a course myself (after 7 or 8 years working) that I realised how little I knew.

Before I did it, I assumed it was obvious how to lift an empty cardboard box, after all, I had a degree and everything.

I naively expected the instructor to arrive with a trailer containing a huge log, a wrecking ball and some sandbags - that's how little I understood it all.

I also assumed that everyone knew how to walk, therefore access wasn't an issue. But 30% of all work accidents come from trips and slips.

[Pete M]

addendum

merc - I agree with yours and others points when comparing to builders. They generally have it easier, don't work in the wet so much, and are better protected by law (CDM etc). Also very little knee and groundlevel work.

I wonder if archaeology has some special types of injuries caused by trowelling and bucket moving - particularly from the lift-and-twist action that can occur when moving a bucket of spoil from in front/side of you to a barrow behind.

If it's not too personal Merc - what is preventing you from digging?

[the invisible man]

Interesting point - yes, builders use machines to shift spoil (and all sorts of other things) not because they are nice caring people but because that is the fastest and cheapest way to do it (these are much the same thing in construction). In turn this is because labour is one of the most expensive commodities in construction..... assuming you can actually get it.....you see where I'm going?

Re lifting and CDM: we now generally try to specify blocks (what people erroneously call breezeblocks) with a maximum weight of 20kg, that being deemed to be a one-man lift.

Re,training in use of tools, walking and so on: again this suggests that some of sort of recognition of field experience is required. If you engage a bricklayer you don't expect to teach him/her to use a trowel. If you engage a site assistant on the basis that he/she is experienced it is reasonable to assume that he/she knows how to use their tools - a duty of care to yourself. A different kettle of fish if you asl them to use a new or unfamiliar tools, or if they are inexperienced.

Today, Bradford. Tomorrow, well, Bradford probably.

[mercenary]

Pete,

Sorry to question your experience, you clearly know what you're talking about with that experience.

My ailment is thankfully seeming to resolve itself, but I'll know more after visiting Doc tomorrow. It was a general siezing up of joints after a hard days work following on from a virus of some type. Felt like the end at the time.

I think you are right about injuries particular to archs. I've met many who get trowelling RSI, and I've got a bad shoulder partly from lifting buckets. The lifting/twisting shovelling action is murder too. I'm a big fan of long handled shovels that seem to be in more common usage these days.

[Sith]

quote:Originally posted by mercenary

The lifting/twisting shovelling action is murder too.

I worked out a long time ago (and was told it later on a manual handling course), that you shouldn't do this. Shovel forwards or, if you have to turn, pick up your spoil and then move your feet.

it's easy to be smug after the event though, hope it's good news from the quack.

D. Vader
Senior Consultant

Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants

We are the consultants you are looking for

[achingknees]

twisting when lifting, including shoveling gives an inevitable bad back. for those not lucky enough to have been given training look at this...
http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/

in particular this...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf

these are actually advice notes for managers and employers, but they are quite useful. look at the advice on moving things on sloping surfaces, then do a calculation for a full barrow....with wet ground...and muddy wheels...that need the tyres pumping. :face-confused:

I know a bloke that can't have sex due to a bad back. That made you think [:0]

[monitor lizard]

quote:Originally posted by mercenary
[ The lifting/twisting shovelling action is murder too.

Got to say, that exact thing was what effectively ended my site days. Too deep a pit, too narrow a slot, ping went back and was laid out flat for weeks. Luckily, the company I then worked for paid a bit for some chiropractic treatment [:0]!

At any rate, I see some people doing so very foolish things with shovels and mattocks on site now, mostly in the name of inexperience and speed, and I ache for them. Good links, Knees.

ML

[kevin wooldridge]

quote:At any rate, I see some people doing so very foolish things with shovels and mattocks on site now, mostly in the name of inexperience and speed

And theres the rub. H&S advice is one thing. Proper training in the use of tools another. We must have all seen colleagues who cannot use shovels, picks or mattocks, wheelbarrows or even trowels in a correct fashion. But how do you tell someone? It feels like almost the worst thing that you can ever say to a fellow digger. 'Err - look there's a better way to hold/use that tool/implement'.

Bring back 'Tool Olympics' on site, I say. It might be frowned upon as macho bulls-h!*t but at least you could observe the technique of someone who could genuinely use a shovel/mattock/trowel and who probably worked in a very ergomatic, energy conserving manner as well. I also think that big people helping little people by sharing and emptying barrows is a good idea.

[sniper]

i think the sharing/emptying barrows thing would be good upto a point. I'm only little but when I used to work out on site all the time, I could lift a barrow with the best of them. I know its stupid, but if someone was always offering to empty my barrow I probably wouldn't be pleased but would be thinking that they thought I was a useless girl...

++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++