Now VATs an interesting subject

[Unitof1]

As a one man bandit I don?t understand registering for vat.

From http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...e=document

quote:You MUST register for VAT when the value of your taxable supplies exceeds the registration threshold:

If the value of your taxable supplies in the past 12 months or less has exceeded the current VAT registration threshold of ?67,000, or the value of your taxable supplies in the next 30 days alone is expected to exceed this threshold, you should ?and complete the application form.

I have recently wondered how close to the wind I should fly on charging a day rate so as not to have to get involved with vat mainly as vat does not make much sense to me. I can see that vat is charged on fuel and that I consume a lot of that but I basically produce reports and pieces of paper and stuff which apparently museums want. In theory if I charge vat I can then claim it back from vat charged to me but it seems to me that there would be way more vat out than in. So I thought well I have never got close to ?67000 so don?t worry about it. Besides I compete against a lot of charities and they don?t appear to have to pay vat so it would be bloody silly to shot myself in the foot.

So I looked at the threshold ?67000, what would my day rate have to be so as not to end up vat-able thought 5 day week 52 weeks is 260 working days 67000 divide by 260 got ?257 a day and thought theres something to aim at. Some days I pilfer 200 some 150 but most days I get nothing at all. So even in my best month I don?t get to close to worrying.
But I get double booked or one job overlaps another suddenly, apart from pretending to be in two places at once like what the big boys do, I subcontract but instantly just by having two jobs on my books, on my lowest day rate, I am hitting VATable rates. Luckily(?) this has not lasted a month and so I believe I am still legit. What it has made me wary about is partnerships or wanting to employ anybody. Its easier for me to give the contract away (hope that that is not seen as some avoidance scheme)

Any thoughts

I am quite interested that books are seen as zero rated, may be what archaeologists do is produce books?

[voice of reason]

Quick point, life's too short to answer the rest. Charities do pay VAT.

[Unitof1]

sorry I meant charge

[drpeterwardle]

VOR said "Charities pay VAT". Most do there are some archaeological charities etc which do not. (And no I am not going to name them .....)

VAT is simple and straight forward discuss this with your accountant.

Peter Wardle

[Unitof1]

You obviously pay vat and have an accountant. Do you have an accountant because vat is not straight forward.
I am an archaeologist.

[RedEarth]

Several points about VAT and smaller organisations:

It is useful if you want to buy a whole load of equipment at one go.

Many client's don't care if you are VAT registered or not because they are anyway, it's more of a cost problem if you are dealing with say the individual homeowner as the client (unless they have some sneaky way of putting it through a business account that is VAT registered).

If you are charging VAT but not claiming much back you can go on a flat rate scheme, which is meant to even it out.

I thought there were cases where charities didn't have to charge VAT (not the important word charge, which is what the Unitmeister was actually on about) if they were doing work for another charity. I was certainly told in one case that one of the tenderers had waived the VAT because the work was for a charity (and I assume they are a charity too). I might be wrong.

You don't need an accountant just because you are paying VAT, they have other uses. I'm not even sure if you need one if you are paying VAT.

Why I am even giving you all this useful information anyway? If you are working as a 'one man bandit' and stearing close to the ?67,000 threshold you are clearly a commercial genius!

[Unitof1]

more like ?670 but to be forewarned is to spend a lot of time worrying about something that never happens but you never know and I can see how taking on a partner might take me over the threshold or being an one armed bandit that I am only an apoplexy away from turning into a consultant and getting everybody to sign ice contracts and who knows then whether I should immediately vat up.

I had this scenario recently where a vat registered construction company hired me to work on somebodys land and we ended up in a field with the constructer and the land owner and the constructer asked me if I was vat registered and I said no and I asked why he asked and he kind of mumbled and so I turned to the landowner and asked if he wanted me to invoice him directly which he did. I have got a feeling that the constructor might not use me again but I am not sure what I did wrong.

buy how much equipment?

It does seem to me that the clients do care if they/you are vated

[drpeterwardle]

The reasons for being VAT registered below the threshold is that everything you buy for the business is 15% cheaper (except books etc)

The reasons for not registering is that you are 15% cheaper when you are working for somebody or an organisation that is also not registered compared to somebody who is. VAT rules require books to be kept and a form sent in quarterly (although there are annual schemes) with the net VAT owed.

It is a straight forward commercial decision until you reach the threshold.

If you are VAT registered some people will want to pay you cash and thus avoid paying VAT which of course you cant do.

Please get professional advice on this matter or contact HMRC and discuss this with them.

Peter

[voice of reason]

Charities which are registered for VAT (subject to Peter's caveats)charge VAT as well, except to a particular group of clearly defined 'exempt' bodies, but it is not in fact in their interests as they end up in negative balance for the VAT bill (ie they pay more out than they take in and so end up owing the VATman).

[BAJR Host]

Thanks for that extra bit of info... I hope that satisfys Uo1s interest...

Perhaps there is a need for a VAT for beginners ? I am sure there are some excellent resources out there... but at the end of the day, as Peter says... TALK TO HMRC or get PROFESSIONAL ADVICE



Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi