Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2007
25th March 2008, 08:30 PM
I would agree. Stealing property is one thing (property is theft, apparently, and its all insured anyway), but thieving artefacts is such a fundamental crime (or even a taboo) for an archaeologist. Should it not be beyond the pale?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2005
25th March 2008, 08:55 PM
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Gog
I would agree. Stealing property is one thing (property is theft, apparently, and its all insured anyway), but thieving artefacts is such a fundamental crime (or even a taboo) for an archaeologist. Should it not be beyond the pale?
Can only agree with this.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2004
25th March 2008, 09:50 PM
So you are advocating theft as a victimless crime then, HB and Gog, as 'it's all insured' [sic]. Can you let me have your home addresses and I'll be round to collect the loot with my swagbag. Or maybe I'll just help myself to an EDM and a set of tools from the office tomorrow morning?
Isn't all theft beyond the pale?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2004
26th March 2008, 12:16 AM
VoR is of course right that ALL theft is wrong...
I am sure people were just looking at it from a specific archaeologists viewpoint..
However.. returning to the point... Unless you are sure that this hypothetical person will re-offend... then you are presenting a guilty verdict of a crime that has not happened.
I he/she has been punished... is that enough? or should you ensure that this person can't work in archaeology again? and then , as you have taken away the thing they obviously like, they start to seriously offend... The question should be... do you know they can't be trusted... if you could be wrong.. then the effect is catastrophic.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2008
26th March 2008, 08:56 AM
To some of the above i would say:
1-irreplaceable heritage is being lost all the time in this commercial world we have to work in,by compromising how much of an area gets looked at and excavated.
2-how do you prove anyone is actually stealing finds?at the moment i am doing finds archive for a company and stuff is turning up that hasn't been seen for years ("we thought we'd lost that")
3-unless you start body searching people and bags as they leave the office or site,what can be done?
4-if a person is a known crook then companies are not obliged to hire them in the first place!
5-without the use of a lie-detector (and they can be fooled) or truth serum how do we know if anyone has ill intent in mind.
Interacting with people at work entails a lot of trust that the folk we are working with are as honest as what ourselves are.Having said all that....
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"-why? do we assume their's a shortage of bad intentions out there?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2007
26th March 2008, 10:08 AM
Quote:quote:Originally posted by voice of reason
So you are advocating theft as a victimless crime then, HB and Gog, as 'it's all insured' [sic]. Can you let me have your home addresses and I'll be round to collect the loot with my swagbag. Or maybe I'll just help myself to an EDM and a set of tools from the office tomorrow morning?
Isn't all theft beyond the pale?
Fine - I was trying to rein in my gut instinct which would be to have a zero tolerance policy for anyone convicted of any crime whatsoever. I was actually expecting a torrent of abuse for even suggesting that artefact thieves should be shown the door, but I clearly didn't go far enough for some people.
The insurance bit was of course tongue in cheek, and every theft is a tragedy - are you mocking my grammar with your (sic) insertion, by the way?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2004
26th March 2008, 10:49 AM
mocking my grammar - the new gameshow based on that hit series.. Britache
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2004
26th March 2008, 11:44 AM
Sorry - wasn't mocking your grammar at all - it was the sentiment which you clearly don't share. Irony is a difficult thing in digital format.
Heard too often from many people that insurance covers it so why bother caring, or the one that really gets my goat - inflating insurance claims because it is a 'victimless crime' and their due reward for paying premiums.
I know for us as a company that our excess is so large it isn't worth claiming for most losses or thefts,and that hits the staff directly as it is less cash in the pot for pay etc.
Anyway - we wouldn't employ anyone with a conviction for theft which was not 'timed out' under rehabilitation legislation and even then would have to think long and hard.
Anyway- 'Mock your grandma' might be a viable TV format!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2007
26th March 2008, 01:26 PM
I certainly haven't used the phrase 'victimless crime', as I don't believe in it - its a nonsense dreamt up to suggest that white collar criminals are a cut above their working class counterparts, and should be treated with understanding and sympathy rather than penal servitude, as their crimes don't really harm anyone. In fact, they cause far more misery to far more people than any burglary. This includes insurance fraudsters, by the way (the middle class equivalent of benefit cheats). They seem to think of themselves as 'offenceless offenders'.
You're quite right about the effect of increased premiums on all of us, though, so in that context my comment about property theft was crasser than I meant it to be.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2007
26th March 2008, 09:53 PM
I find it insane that we work in an industry where it doesnt seem to matter what you do in terms of standards and actions there are no repucussions for actions. You can continue to practice as a company and an individual!
Everyone has to take responcability for their own actions and if the result is that you can no longer practice archaeology then so be it.
Information Reguarding Ex-employees
