British Women Archaeologists new survey

[BAJR]

Was this sexual discrimination? Host's reply to Dino rather implies that it was.

hosts reply to Dino was merely pointing out that giving rights that are the law is not anything to crow about.

However, your point is interesting and well made. it si an issue,

[GnomeKing]

it is certainly true that Paternal Rights need to be advocated and maintained....however this was a survey for the British Women Archaeologists group....oddly, i haven't seen the survey for the male equivalent yet.... like any survey i am sure it would reflect the desire of those who initiated it to demonstrate the presence of opinions they wanted brought to wider attention...

easy to criticise - harder to actually progress

"all the Buddhas in the Three Worlds
find no words
they only hang
their mouths on the wall"

[BAJR]

perhaps yet another initiative that could be looked at by unionisation:face-huh:

[Gilraen]

'Braindeath' - I think what the questionarire may have been getting at was whether contractors (archaeological) discriminated against women who may or may not have babies on terms of pay and conditions. It is not only in this profession that this is an issue. Many companies resent having to pay any salaries to people (be they men or women) who are not actually working for them because they have decided to become parents.

I am not a parent myself, and hence I am hesitant to come forward with the view that other members of staff who have children seem to have a certain 'parent card' that is played - no, I can't do that, because 'Johnny is on half term', or no, 'I can't do that because the school is closed today. '. But that is another issue. Because I am known to have 'no children' it is assumed I will get up at crack of effing dawn to drive 3 hours to a site and stay however long is necessary. If I replied and said 'sorry, I have to drop my kids off at 8 and pick them up at 4' then - as a woman - they would have to suck it up. If you're the man, then, they may have an issue with that (ie, 'isn't your wife/girlfriend/partner looking after your kids?'). Is that fair? Discuss.................

Ultimately, if you are in a job that requires you to work away from home at short notice, then you either do it or you don't. Man or woman. If you have a family, then the profesion you wish to continue with or take is up to you.

Personally, I believe that a woman deserves to have their job secure and not be threatened simply because they choose to preserve the human race by having children. Times have changed so much since the 1980s and I am glad that legislation is what it is.

Going (eventually) back on topic, yes, I found the questionaire a little contrived, but if you are a man reading the questionaire (and please, gentlemen, don't be fooled - your 'questionaire' was there to prevent you from complaining bitterley about how hard your life is - in a forum) than that's life.

[kevin wooldridge]

My problem was that I couldn't get to the end of the gentlemens survey...when I pressed 'next' on page 3 it returned me to page 1. So - perhaps reverting to male stereotype - at that point I couldn't be bothered to read the instructions on how to fill out the survey and gave up.....but I might try again later when all the technical problems have been sorted

[trowelfodder]

I feel that the important issue here is not specifically maternity rights but rather should include paternity rights - and to a certain extent this then feeds into the wider issues of what is expected from employees.

I think that it is in no way aceptable to make the issue of parenthood about just women and it is just my opinion but i strongly beleive that the best way to counter descrimination against women is to allow the option for men to have the same rights and oportunities to become the primary carer as women.

Both my parter and i are archaeologists and we do BOTH face some really tough descisions in the future as to how we reconsile our career choices with thinking about families.

Archaeology - and im sorry to have a go - but as a proffession is so difficult to motivate to do anything as a group that by splintering off and making gender specific demands we depleat our limited appeal even further. As a proffession there are of course issues which affect women to a greater or lesser degree but we must work together for change. Just because my boss is male does not make him incapable of understanding that i dont want to piss in a field in full view of a load of builders and that i have periods so a toilet is vital - and if he doesnt i dont mind talking about it until he does - but then again men dont do everything standing up so! And as for PPE again the problem of it not fitting affects more women than men but it is not an exclusively female issue.

It is important to discuss these issues as often others are unaware of potential problems but it is best not approached on an us and them basis

[Wax]

I think I am with most of you on this

The survey was trying to see if there were any particular issues relevant to being a female archaeologists. Like others on this forum I found the survey just a little bit biased and certainly skewed towards a certain point of view.

The fundamental issue is employment rights. Things like toilets and protective clothing are enshrined in health and safety law. Equal rights and equal opportunities are also a matter of law. Any obvious discrimination on grounds of gender is breaking employment law. Membership of a union would allow you to directly challenge this.

It is the more subtle elements like being overlooked for promotion or not being given the chances for training or extra responsibility that are perhaps more of a direct issue for women and other groups who have been historically discriminated against. These are very difficult to prove.

The debate on parenting, or should that be carers rights is another issue. One I think should be brought into the open and fought for. It is work life balance that is important we all have or should have a life outside of work and other responsibilities than those of our day jobs.

The ability to perform the day job is enhanced but being able to give our personal lives equal weight. It always surprises me that employers, who I presume are people with lives, seem to resent their employees having any other agenda than work.

As someone who has chosen deliberately not to be a parent I do not resent those who have and feel that they should have the chance of a flexible work life balance that allows them to be good parents. I do not care if this comes at a little extra cost to me

[amber]

I agree that fencing off certain problems as "womens" is devisive. We desperately, desperately need to stand together on all issues. Trying to get archaeologists to agree on anything is like herding kittens as it is.

The biggest issue I believe is the difficulty of getting any real job security for so many of us. Parental rights of any kind mean very little without job security.

[trowelfodder]

I definately agree that the work life balance expected of staff in archaeology is way out of kilter. To suddenly be expected to drop everything at a moments notice and travel 100's of miles away or to commute for hours extra each day is not exceptable but until we all stop competeing with each other and doing these things for fear someone else will nothing will change. What we need is a greater commitment within the proffession to change. This will have a knock on effect for all not just women which is in everyones best interests

[Dinosaur]

I definately agree that the work life balance expected of staff in archaeology is way out of kilter. To suddenly be expected to drop everything at a moments notice and travel 100's of miles away or to commute for hours extra each day is not exceptable but until we all stop competeing with each other and doing these things for fear someone else will nothing will change. What we need is a greater commitment within the proffession to change. This will have a knock on effect for all not just women which is in everyones best interests

Unfortunately those 100s of miles away jobs that you only get told about at 5 o'clock the previous afternoon are never going to go away, unless the construction industry suddenly has an attack of being remotely organised and planning ahead, which historically doesn't seem too likely! Changing the archaeology profession isn't going to change that, unless you're suggesting going down the 'regional franchise' route? Commercial archaeology is competetive by its very nature....